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In this episode, I sit down with Michael Kamil to unpack one of the most debated topics in education today: the science of reading. Rather than treating literacy reform as a slogan, we explore what decades of research actually say about how children learn to read and why translating research into classroom practice remains so difficult. Michael reflects on his work in large-scale literacy studies and national panels, offering a grounded perspective on how evidence is generated, interpreted, and sometimes oversimplified in public discourse. We discuss the history of the reading wars, the tension between phonics and broader comprehension instruction, and the political forces that shape curriculum mandates. Michael emphasizes that research rarely produces simple silver bullets. Instead, it offers nuanced findings that require professional judgment, context awareness, and sustained implementation. A recurring theme in our conversation is the gap between what researchers know and what systems are prepared to support. What stayed with me most is the idea that evidence alone does not change schools. Change depends on incentives, teacher preparation, and long-term alignment between research and policy. If we want literacy reform to succeed, we need more than mandates. We need systems that respect both science and the complexity of teaching. Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 01:48 – Entering Literacy Research 06:22 – The Origins of the Reading Wars 12:05 – What the Research Actually Shows 18:44 – Phonics, Comprehension, and Balance 25:10 – National Panels and Policy Influence 32:36 – Why Research Gets Simplified 39:14 – Teacher Preparation and Implementation 45:50 – Evidence vs. Mandates 52:03 – What Sustainable Literacy Reform Requires 58:17 – Looking Ahead: The Future of Reading Instruction 01:01:40 – Closing Reflections #reeducatedpodcast #reeducatedshorts #reading #podcastclips #michaelkamil #gouthamyagappan #learning #science #education