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PA MP Ashley Sauls sits down for a no-fluff interview — from his personal “redemption” story to the uncomfortable questions the country is asking about Kenny Kunene, criminal syndicates, and whether the GNU is actually delivering accountability. We get into the real arguments: what redemption actually means, whether “independent investigations” paid for by a party can be trusted, why the PA backs sending the army into gangster areas, and the brutal truth about how politics is played when commissions expose rot. ✅ IN THIS EPISODE • Ashley Sauls’ journey: church → politics → Patriotic Alliance • “Redemption requires a price” — why “forgive me” isn’t enough • The Kunene controversy: “once vs twice” and the credibility problem • Independent investigation debate: paid for ≠ trusted? • Can citizens ever get justice when institutions are compromised? • VAT fight inside GNU: cabinet deals vs court action vs “playing politics” • PA’s claim: they pushed key GNU moves (army / immigration enforcement) • Should the SANDF be used to fight gangs? (and the risks) • What happens after the Madlanga / ad hoc outcomes: arrests or cover-up? • The core tension: “serving the country” vs scoring political points Don’t just complain get involved, share this conversation, and subscribe for more State of the Nation insights. Get Daily Updates: @PoliticalInsiderZA Follow @sonacoza on TikTok, Instagram, X, and Facebook Produced by Stream In Studios – https://www.streamin.co.za The State Of the Nation is Proudly Sponsored by Pace Car Rental https://www.pacecarrental.co.za/ Use Code : SONA for a discount today! Chapters: 0:00 Sponsor + intro: why this interview matters 0:36 Ashley Sauls joins + why he flew up to do it 1:27 Sauls’ background: youth pastor → politics 3:30 PA as a “home for redemption stories” 6:03 The hard question: do we abuse “redemption” in SA? 6:59 “Redemption requires a price” (jail + consequences) 8:39 Work on the ad hoc committee: state rot + syndicates 9:48 Kenny Kunene controversy begins (syndicate house question) 10:38 “Once not twice” — facts vs narrative fight 11:31 Independence debate: who paid for the investigation? 12:20 “Lay a charge then” — institutions vs public trust 14:49 Why Kunene’s past shapes public doubt 18:21 Asphalt plant example: PA’s defence of Kunene’s work in Joburg 19:04 Shift: Phala Phala consistency test 20:59 “Sufficient clearance” vs public skepticism 22:22 The bigger issue: citizens watching powerful people dodge accountability 23:50 VAR analogy: public oversight when refs/institutions fail 26:10 “Vote PA” pitch: crime, poverty, integration arguments 29:04 McKenzie in GNU: “cheerleader” vs “statesman” accusation 31:08 Constitutional argument: cabinet discipline vs public fights 33:04 Debate: what voters actually voted for in 2024 (GNU legitimacy clash) 35:57 Legislature vs executive: PA’s role claim 39:12 VAT fight breakdown: cabinet agreement vs DA court strategy 42:22 Court ruling vs political victory argument 44:06 Host pushback: “without court you’d be at 16% VAT” 47:52 PA claims: army deployment + immigration enforcement 48:48 Should soldiers go into townships? (gangster reality) 50:46 Can committees actually reform SAPS? 51:34 President decides: will recommendations be implemented? 52:45 Will PA break with ANC if it’s buried? (line-drawing) 54:03 “Playing politics” vs “governing” distinction explained 55:00 PA pledge: keep pushing arrests + accountability 56:09 Closing: will GNU challenge ANC cover-ups? 56:59 Outro + thanks