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Peter Fonagy: Mentalisation Based Theory

A conversation with Professor Peter Fonagy where we explore the history and evolution of the concept of mentalisation—a foundational idea in contemporary psychoanalysis and developmental psychology. We trace its roots, how it emerged in clinical settings, and its relevance to understanding human development, attachment, and psychopathology. We also delve into the role of trauma, particularly early relational trauma, in shaping one’s capacity to mentalise. Fonagy shares reflections on how trauma disrupts self-other understanding, the development of epistemic trust, and how therapeutic approaches like Mentalization-Based Treatment (MBT) can help restore resilience and relational capacity. Whether you're a clinician, researcher, or simply curious about the mind, this conversation offers rich insights into how we make sense of ourselves and others. 01:30 What is mentalising 05:10 Mentalising versus Theory of Mind as a term 06:10 Mentalising as a psychoanalytic concept 08:30 Neuroscience and mentalising 09:30 Hegel and Self Awareness 10:35 Relational psychoanalysis 12:25 Freud discovered mentalising 13:10 Working with children 14:50 First application of mentalising - George Moran 21:00 Meeting Anthony Bateman and Developing MBT 24:00 Example of MBT intervention- Psychic equivalence 26:10 Maltreatment and BPD 31:10 Anti Social Behaviour \ 34:25 Peters autistic traits 35:10 MBT First rials 37:20 Group work 38:55 Traumatisation and double empathy 43:40 BPD as a diagnosis of relational trauma (clip) 47:10 Doing God’s work 48:47 Trauma is when the mind feels itself to be alone