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In this Podcast episode of SIA Conversations, Dr. Nadeem Ul Haque sits down with renowned economist Dr. Aqdas Afzal to unpack some of the most critical challenges facing Pakistan’s economy, governance, and intellectual ecosystem. The discussion begins with reflections on Dr. Aqdas’s experience working in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, offering rare insights into how economic policy is formulated, implemented, and often misunderstood. The conversation explores why Pakistan’s economic debates remain shallow, disconnected from evidence, and overly dependent on donor-driven narratives rather than indigenous research and long-term strategy. A central theme of the discussion is productivity—why Pakistan struggles to improve total factor productivity and how misplaced priorities, weak institutions, and poor incentive structures undermine growth. The panel examines the role of Randomized Control Trials (RCTs), the limitations of development economics in Pakistan, and why global research methods have failed to translate into meaningful domestic reform. The conversation also delves into education reform, questioning whether Pakistan’s education system is producing thinkers or merely credential holders. Dr. Aqdas and Dr. Nadeem emphasize that without improving teaching quality, research capacity, and bureaucratic competence, economic reforms will remain superficial. The discussion concludes with a candid critique of policy-making, bureaucracy, and governance, arguing for stronger advisory institutions, better-trained economists, and a renewed focus on productivity, competition, and institutional reform. _______________________________________________________________ Dr. Nadeem Ul Haque – Dr. Nadeem Ul Haque is a prominent Pakistani economist, policy thinker, and former Vice Chancellor of the Pakistan Institute of Development Economics (PIDE). He has served in senior roles at the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and has been a leading voice on economic reform, institutional development, and governance in Pakistan. Known for his outspoken critique of inefficient policies, rent-seeking behavior, and weak institutions, Dr. Nadeem advocates for productivity-led growth, market-based reforms, and evidence-driven policymaking. He currently leads intellectual discussions through platforms such as SIA Conversations, promoting open debate on Pakistan’s economic and governance challenges. Dr. Aqdas Afzal – Dr. Aqdas Afzal is an accomplished economist and academic with extensive experience in development economics, public policy, and economic research. He has served as a faculty member at leading universities and has worked with international institutions, including advisory roles in Saudi Arabia. Dr. Aqdas specializes in productivity analysis, development economics, and the application of empirical research—particularly randomized control trials (RCTs)—to policy design. His work emphasizes evidence-based decision-making, institutional reform, and the need for improving the quality of education and research in developing economies like Pakistan. _______________________________________________________________ 00:00 – 03:00 Introduction & Purpose of the Discussion 03:00 – 08:00 Experience in Saudi Arabia & Policy Learning 08:00 – 13:00 Why Economic Thinking in Pakistan Is Weak 13:00 – 18:00 Productivity vs Poverty Narratives 18:00 – 23:00 Role of RCTs in Development Economics 23:00 – 28:00 Why Research Fails to Influence Policy 28:00 – 33:00 Education System & Skill Deficit 33:00 – 38:00 Bureaucracy, Incentives & Governance Problems 38:00 – 43:00 Reforming Economic Institutions 43:00 – 48:00 Why Economists Must Shape Public Debate 48:00 – 53:00 Policy Making vs Political Incentives 53:00 – 58:00 Future of Economic Reform in Pakistan 58:00 – 1:05:00 Final Thoughts & Takeaways _______________________________________________________________ #PakistanEconomy #EconomicPolicy #DrNadeemUlHaque #EconomicReforms #Kadven #Binance #amazon #liquidity #bitcoin #volume #PublicPolicy #Productivity #DevelopmentEconomics #ThinkTank #PolicyDebate #SIAConversations