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Captions are automated. This is a part of an interview I did with Dr. Karen Bauer and Dr. Feras Hamza for the New Books in Islamic Studies podcast (link: https://newbooksnetwork.com/an-anthol...) about their book An Anthology of Qur'anic Commentaries (vol. 2) On Women. I very much enjoyed and learned a LOT from their discussion of 4:34, so I'm sharing it here. You can listen to the full interview in the link above. Here's a map of the discussion if you'd like to listen to only specific parts: From minutes 1 to ~10, authors’ intro and interest in the Qur’an as scripture and text, in literature and its relevance to this project. -Minutes ~10-~15: on the tafsir (exegetical) tradition, which interpretations/interpreters they used in the volume, why; Bauer on the diversity in the tafsir tradition but at the same time very little to no diversity on women, and on the radical differences between modern/more recent interpretations of the Qur’an compared to the pre-modern (pre-19th century) ones, on differences between the Qur’an and its interpretations. Minutes ~15-~20: about the feminists included in this volume and their interpretations. Hamza’s perspectives on those interpretations and feminist approaches to the text. On what it means to say “no” to violent interpretations of the Qur’an (like Q. 4:34), on whether it’s possible to read the Qur’an in its 7th century context and find it liberatory/emancipatory in all of its complexities and not just by bypassing the difficult verses in it like Q. 4:34. Minutes ~20: Bauer on what the tafsir tradition represents – the Qur’an? A range of views? Or only one view with slight nuances? Are there are other ways to interpret it, too? What’s an emancipatory reading of the Qur’an? What does it mean to put the Qur’an in its historical context? Minutes ~22-~23: on “barbed wire” moments and on saying “no” to a literal reading of the text, on moments in the Qur’an where the reader is being tested about what interpretation they’ll choose when they have multiple options. ~23-~24: my clarification that amina wadud says “no” to a literal and violent interpretation of the text, not to the Qur’an itself as a whole, on the etiquette of reading scripture and aiming for the best, most beautiful interpretation of scripture ~24-~28: Hamza on misappropriating history, on what it means to interpret or read the Qur’an from a historical perspective and then enact the text in different centuries. More on violence against women today. Hamza argues in favor of reading the text in a historical context. Is 4:34 to be applied literally? ~28- ~30: on 4:34 being difficult because it’s a text from God with real impact on women’s lives. ~30-~36: Bauer on 4:34 actually limiting men’s rights, that the moral high ground is to not do it; on the tafsir tradition had the option to take this view, of looking at the examples of the Prophet Muhammad (s.) in hadiths never hitting his wives, but they instead chose to read it as the husband’s “right” to hit his wife without any penalty so long as he doesn’t kill her. On laws in the Qur’an as prescriptive (like you “should” pray) and limiting (“you might do this, but don’t really do it, don’t go too far”) or what you should do more of (like charity). And this is why it’s important to understand the patriarchal society in which 4:34 is revealed. It seems like a “right” in our time/society but that’s not what the Qur’an is doing. This idea that this is a “right” is an influence of the tafsir tradition. The scholars are writing for each other, maintaining their power, putting others down. Why it’s important to document the changes Bauer & Hamza do in this volume. ~36-~39: on nushuz, turning away from one’s duties in a marriage. Hamza on what “duties” in a marriage means in the 7th century context, esp sexual transgressions. Why they’re asymmetric (because historical gender hierarchy) but today’s men thinking that they’re 7th century men ~39-~42: Bauer on how hadiths suddenly become important for interpreting 4:34 in the modern period, despite the same hadiths’ being available to past interpreters as well; on interpretive choices and why their interpretations are so entirely about power, on what makes power so appealing, on the potential for violence being there (being violent without actually being violent); on some scholars’ argument that 4:34 has been abrogated in our time just like slavery has been abrogated, inapplicable due to changing morals and contexts and norms. ~42 to end: Hamza’s reminder that the Qur’an was sent to a very small town, on what the Qur’an might focus on today if it were being revealed today