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In conversation with Trevor Manuel on Fiscal Policy, State Capacity and Governance Failure. 00:00:00 Opening Exchange – Cricket, World Cup & Leadership in Sport 00:01:10 First Political Awakening – 1974 Bus Boycott 00:02:34 Black Consciousness & Psychological Liberation 00:05:04 The Return of Identity Politics in Modern SA 00:07:42 1976 Uprisings Spread Beyond Soweto 00:09:17 Decision to Join MK – The 1979 Mission 00:13:36 Grassroots Newspaper & Community Mobilisation 00:18:59 The Birth of the UDF – Building a United Front 00:21:21 Terror Lekota & Organising Across Provinces 00:23:21 Groote Schuur Talks – Behind-the-Scenes Logistics 00:28:00 Secret ANC Caucuses & Outsmarting Security Police 00:32:08 Groote Schuur & Pretoria Minutes Explained 00:33:16 Suspension of Armed Struggle – The Chris Hani Debate 00:37:05 ANC Economic Planning Department – Assigned to Economics 00:39:44 Working with Cyril Ramaphosa in the NWC 00:42:59 MERG – Training a New Generation of Economists 00:46:17 Modeling Crisis – Why MERG Couldn’t Produce a Single Framework 00:49:42 1992–93 IMF Drought Loan – Context & Political Approval 00:52:24 Apartheid Debt Structure & Domestic Bond Financing 00:53:09 Mandela on Debt, Workers’ Pensions & Education 00:55:28 Appointment as Minister of Finance 00:56:11 IMF “Conditions” & The GEAR Allegations 01:05:00 Fiscal Discipline, Tariffs & Trade Liberalisation Debate 01:15:00 Global Markets, Credibility & Investor Confidence 01:22:00 Patrice Motsepe & Big Business Engagements 01:30:00 Senzo Mchunu & Internal Party/State Dynamics 01:38:00 Working Relationship with Cyril Ramaphosa in Government 01:45:00 Zuma Era Reflections – Institutional Decline 01:52:00 Economic Reform, Trade Shifts & Strategic Realignments