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Sat down with Mustafa Suleyman, CEO of Microsoft AI, to discuss all things artificial intelligence. Few have been as embedded in AI's modern era, as he co-founded both DeepMind in 2010 (acquired by Google in 2014) and Inflection AI in 2022. So, down the rabbit hole we go. Chapters 0:00 - If an AI-focused career path was clear to him 2:11 - The relationship between Microsoft and OpenAI 4:51 - AI research labs vs AI companies 7:16 - Elaborating on response to protestors 9:22 - AI’s use in the government 15:24 - The relationship between tech and government leaders 17:25 - The pros and cons of open-source models 22:48 - Will AI be “winner takes all” 26:08 - Gatekeeping 27:28 - Optimism and pessimism as limiting biases 30:31 - How our time online may change 33:29 - Are AI companions helping or hurting current human voids 38:21 - Advising young people’s emotional relationship with AI 41:56 - How human-to-human interaction may change 46:16 - How the average person can use the “Think deeper” feature 48:05 - What you shouldn’t tell your AI 49:32 - AI’s social intelligence 50:52 - The future of opting in and out of your relationship with AI 54:43 - The potential of humans not needing to “work” 59:23 - Future income, incentives, and payment structures 1:03:22 - What you should know about containment 1:06:14 - Outro You can also find Mustafa on Twitter: https://x.com/mustafasuleyman Intro animation by Black Book Studio: https://www.blackbook.studio/ You can also find me on Instagram: / julesterpak Twitter: / julesterpak TikTok: / julesterpak Reddit: / julesterpak Twitch: / julesterpak Substack: https://www.julesterpak.com/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/31cv2j5... Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Other: / discord My production gear: https://amzn.to/3OFWWJv Business inquiries: julesterpak@gmail.com ____________________ Key terms from “The Coming Wave” Artificial intelligence (AI): The science of teaching machines to learn humanlike capabilities. Artificial general intelligence (AGI): The point at which an AI can perform all human cognitive skills better than the smartest humans. Artificial capable intelligence (ACI): The fast-approaching point between AI and AGI: ACI can achieve a wide range of complex tasks but is still a long way from being fully general. The coming wave: An emerging cluster of related technologies centered on AI and synthetic biology whose transformative applications will both empower humankind and present unprecedented risks. Containment: The ability to monitor, curtail, control, and potentially even close down technologies. The containment problem: Technology’s predisposition to diffuse widely in waves and to have emergent impacts that are impossible to predict or control, including negative and unforeseen consequences. The dillema: The growing likelihood that both new technologies and even their absence might lead to catastrophic and/or dystopian outcomes. Four features: The unique characteristics of the coming wave that exacerbate the challenge of containment. They are asymmetry, hyper-evolution, omni-use, and autonomy. Fragility amplifiers: Applications and impacts of coming-wave technologies that will shake the already brittle foundations of the nation-state. The grand bargain: In exchange for a monopoly over the right to use force, citizens expect nation-states to preserve order and provide public services, including by harnessing new technologies while minimizing the harmful side effects. The narrow path: The potential for humankind to strike a balance between openness and closure when it comes to containing the technologies in the coming wave that avoids catastrophic or dystopian outcomes. Pessimism aversion: The tendency for people, particularly elites, to ignore, downplay, or reject narratives they see as overly negative. A variant of optimism bias, it colors much of the debate around the future, especially in technology circles. Synthetic biology: The ability to design and engineer new organisms or redesign existing biological systems. Technology: The application of scientific knowledge (in the broadest possible sense) to produce tools or practical outcomes. Waves: The global diffusion or proliferation of a generation of technology anchored in a new general-purpose technology. The 10 steps toward containment → Can't fit in the character count, so pause the on-screen visual at 1:03:57