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In EP04, we have Dharmesh BA with us who is the founder of *The Business Hero* and **1990 Research Lab**, known for his rich user insights into the Indian consumer psyche via his newsletter, *The India Notes*. He discusses how to organize the chaos of the MSME sector, which has increasingly adopted WhatsApp for sales, negotiation, and distribution. The conversation also explores the need for *cultural nuance* in product design for "Bharat" and the challenge of getting Indian businesses to pay for productivity tools due to their trust deficit and reluctance to adoption of technology Chapters: 00:00 Coming up 00:32 Intro 01:30 Founder journey of Dharmesh BA for SMBs 03:05 Diff btw an MSME and entrepreneur 05:52 For India, can Whatsapp be the WeChat of China? 08:20 Opportunities to build products for MSMEs 21:15 How to crack trust in Tier 2+ markets? 26:44 Why brands are creating reels of what's happening in their office? 27:50 Apps which could solve TRUST for Bharat users 31:12 Importance of cultural nuance for building for Bharat 37:34 Opportunities to build products for migrant workers 39:24 How startup founders and PMs conduct unbiased User Research?