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In this powerful conversation, Dr. Ron Cantor and Pia Hugo unpack her story of suffering, violent domestic abuse by her first husband, the brother-in-law of would-be governor Pastor Che Ahn. Pia shares how, despite knowing that her husband could even take her life, Che and Sue Ahn urged her to stay in the marriage. She claims that Che even suggested that the Lord was calling her to be a martyr, in which she would be rewarded in heaven. Ron and Pia discuss the dark realities of abuse within the church, the struggles of women in abusive relationships, and the need for accountability in leadership. NOTE: While we found Pia's story compelling and believable, we are not saying what is true and what is not. We call on Che and Sue Ahn's accountability team to thoroughly investigate the claims and, where needed, make corrections in accordance with 1 Tim 5:19-20. Check out our new book, soon to be released: https://www.roncantor.com/when-shephe.... Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Darkness and Light 02:41 Pia's Journey: From the Philippines to America 05:33 The Allure of Charismatic Leadership 08:52 The Struggles of Marriage and Spiritual Abuse 11:44 The Impact of Church Culture on Women 14:42 The Turning Point: Physical Abuse and Seeking Help 17:37 The Aftermath of Abuse and Community Response 20:51 Finding Freedom and Rebuilding Life 23:29 The Role of the Church in Supporting Victims 26:47 Empowerment Through Sharing Stories 29:26 Conclusion: A Call for Change 37:10 Journey of Healing and Self-Discovery 43:29 Confronting Abuse and Seeking Help 50:27 The Role of Authority and Accountability 55:46 Breaking the Silence: Speaking Out Against Abuse 01:02:32 The Path to Healing and Moving Forward #bethel #ShawnBolz #abuseallegations