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I spoke to Charles Hecker this week. Charles has spent 40 years traveling and working in the Soviet Union and Russia. He speaks fluent Russian and he just wrote a book called Zero Sum. At first glance, the book is about international business in Russia. And it is, but it is also a lens to look at political and economic developments more generally. We spoke about the chaos of the early 1990s. Western governments pushing their companies to invest in Russia and the impact that closer engagement with Moscow had on our own societies. I enjoyed the book. I enjoyed talking to Charles and I hope you enjoy our discussion. Let's go. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:52 Life in Russia after the Collapse of the Soviet Union 03:12 Why Did Western Firms Want to Invest in Russia? 05:08 Governments Wanted Their Firms to Go to Russia 08:56 Challenges of Working in Russia 18:55 How did Oligarchs Become Oligarchs? 26:28 How the System Works under Putin 28:22 Annexation of Crimea 32:13 Western Response was Inconsistent 34:40 Londongrad 41:01 Local Interests Matter 43:34 Outro My guest Website: https://www.charleshecker.com Book: https://www.charleshecker.com/purchas... Twitter: https://x.com/Charles_Hecker Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/charleshecke... Me Newsletter: https://thehundred.substack.com Book: https://www.marceldirsus.com/tyrants Twitter: https://x.com/marceldirsus Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/marceldirsus... I'll see you soon.