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Iconic eye witness author and LGBTQ historian Jack Fritscher (USA) talks with photographer A M Hanson (UK) about his book 'Dueling Photographers: George Dureau and Robert Mapplethorpe', their connection, relationships with models, studio and private lives and impact. The Male Gaze. The Gay Gaze. Meeting Mapplethorpe at Drummer Magazine. San Francisco in the 1970s, being there LGBTQ history, Harvey Milk and being in "Milk" the movie. New dawns and the bi-coastal golden days. HIV/AIDS activism in the 1980s and beyond. Turning sex fantasies into the ultimate safe sex realities at Palm Drive Video. How it was then , where we are now. Plus more insights and observations back and forth across the pond ... ~ rough uncut cut zoom sessions / Sept 2024, extended chat published Oct 2025 ~ With special thanks and appreciation to Mark Hemry. photos: 1: Jack Fritscher and Robert Mapplethorpe (auto portrait, c1979). 2: Robert Mapplethorpe, Elliot Siegal, Jack Fritscher, outside the RamRod, New York City (Leonard Fink, 1978). 3: George Dureau, at his home and studio, New Orleans (video still, Jack Fritscher, 1991). 4: Jack filming, 1980s. 5 & 6: 'Dueling Photographers' book cover / (end credits) back cover "Dueling Photographers, George Dureau and Robert Mapplethorpe" is published by Palm Drive (2024). For more about Jack Fritscher's work see www.jackfritscher.com A M Hanson is an artist, photographer, map maker, and sometime curator, based in London. . . .