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It’s become pretty easy to spot phishing scams: UPS orders you never made, banking alerts from companies you don’t bank with, phone calls from unfamiliar area codes. But over the past decade, these scams – and the technology behind them – have become more sophisticated, invasive and sinister, largely due to the rise of something called ‘mercenary spyware.’ The most potent version of this tech is Pegasus, a surveillance tool developed by an Israeli company called NSO Group. Once Pegasus infects your phone, it can see your texts, track your movement, and download your passwords – all without you realizing you’d been hacked. We know a lot of this because of Ron Deibert. Twenty years ago, he founded Citizen Lab, a research group at the University of Toronto that has helped expose some of the most high profile cases of cyber espionage around the world. Ron has a new book out called Chasing Shadows: Cyber Espionage, Subversion, and the Global Fight for Democracy, and he sat down with me to explain how spyware works, and what it means for our privacy – and our democracy. Note: We reached out to NSO Group about the claims made in this episode and they did not reply to our request for comment. Mentioned: “Chasing Shadows: Cyber Espionage, Subversion, and the Global Fight for Democracy (https://www.simonandschuster.com/book...) ,” by Ron Deibert “Meta’s WhatsApp says spyware company Paragon targeted users in two dozen countries (https://www.reuters.com/technology/cy...) ,” by Raphael Satter, Reuters Further Reading: “The Autocrat in Your iPhone (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/world/...) ,” by Ron Deibert “A Comprehensive Analysis of Pegasus Spyware and Its Implications for Digital Privacy and Security (https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.19677) ,” Karwan Kareem “Stopping the Press: New York Times Journalist Targeted by Saudi-linked Pegasus Spyware Operator (https://citizenlab.ca/2020/01/stoppin...) ,” by Bill Marczak, Siena Anstis, Masashi Crete-Nishihata, John Scott-Railton, and Ron Deibert Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.