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How does an artist give presence to absence? Bronze, wood, paint, and stone—classic materials for art making. But what if you're trying and struggling to convey a vast expanse, a terrible loss or a haunting presence? In this episode we'll look at two artists who turned to the material of space to express what nothing else could. Featured artworks: Rachel Whiteread, Closet, 1988 Rachel Whiteread, Untitled (Three Tables), 1995/1996: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect... Rachel Whiteread, Shallow Breath, 1988: https://www.nga.gov/features/slidesho... Shania Hall, Where the Vast Sky Meets the Flat Earth (unofficial title), ca. 2015: https://www.metmuseum.org/articles/fr... Jaune Quick-to-See Smith, Trade (Gifts for Trading Land with White People), 1992: https://chrysler.emuseum.com/objects/... Arthur Vitols, Byron Company. [West from Hotel McAlpin 6th Ave. & 34th St.]: https://collections.mcny.org/CS.aspx?... Guests: Rachel Whiteread, sculptor Brinda Kumar, Associate Curator, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Met Shania Hall, photographer For a transcript of the episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterialspaceart #MetImmaterial Follow Immaterial wherever you listen to podcasts. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7v7RLfD... Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ccc... Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camille Dungy. Production staff includes Salman Ahad Khan, Ann Collins, Samantha Henig, Eric Nuzum, Emma Vecchione, Sarah Wambold, and Jamie York. Additional staff includes Julia Bordelon, Skyla Choi, Maria Kozanecka, and Rachel Smith. Sound design by Ariana Martinez and Kristin Muller. Original music by Austin Fisher. Fact-checking by Mary Mathis and Claire Hyman. Immaterial is made possible by Dasha Zhukova Niarchos. Additional support is provided by the Zodiac Fund. Subscribe for new content from The Met: / metmuseum #TheMet #Art #TheMetropolitanMuseumofArt #Museum #MetImmaterial #podcast © 2024 The Metropolitan Museum of Art