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Learn how Joel Kraut (BRRRR Loans) uses disciplined leverage and private capital to build durable wealth through every market cycle. Truly Passive Income Episode 135 In this deep dive, Joel Kraut, co-founder of BRRRR Loans, pulls back the curtain on the private lending ecosystem and the BRRRR method (Buy, Renovate, Rent, Refinance, Repeat). With over 20 years of experience as an investor, broker, and lender, Joel explains why successful real estate investing has "nothing to do with real estate" and everything to do with relationship capital and choosing the right partners. We explore the transition from the "wise guy" hard money lenders of the 90s to today’s professionalized direct private lending firms. Joel breaks down the math equations behind high-yield returns, explaining how lenders earn through the interest spread and loan points while managing cash drag. Whether you are a fix and flip enthusiast or a commercial real estate syndicator, this interview maps the essential relationship between debt service coverage ratios (DSCR), loan-to-value (LTV), and after-repair value (ARV). Joel also provides a masterclass on market rotation, discussing why capital is moving from high-appreciation states like California and Texas into cash-flow positive markets in the Midwest and South, such as Ohio and Alabama. 🕒 Key Moments & Navigational Chapters [00:00:00] - The Biggest Fallacy: Why Real Estate is Actually a Relationship Business [00:02:57] - Defining the BRRRR Method and DSCR Style Loans [00:03:56] - The 1996 "Lightbulb Moment": Discovering the Power of Refinancing [00:06:23] - Surviving the 2008 Crash: A First Exposure to Professional Private Lending [00:08:34] - The Concept of Forced Appreciation and Value-Add Investing [00:11:12] - Navigating High Interest Rates and Market Turmoil [00:13:34] - Market Rotation: Why Investors are Moving to "Boring" Cash-Flow States [00:19:38] - How Private Lenders Make Money: Spreads, Points, and Turning Capital - 100% Financing? Understanding Modern Fix and Flip Loan Terms [00:23:55] - Managing "Cash Drag" and Preferred Returns for Investors [00:30:42] - Modern Seasoning Requirements: How to Refi in 91 Days [00:35:50] - Why the Interest Rate is Irrelevant to a Good Operator [00:39:56] - Commercial BRRRR Strategy: Using Insurance Companies and CMBS Loans [00:47:58] - The 5 AM Club and the "Who Not How" Philosophy 📚 References & Sources The 5 AM Club by Robin Sharm (https://a.co/d/5KLwIwp) Who Not How by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy (https://a.co/d/7hsk1j7) The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod (https://a.co/d/dcY5b7D) Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki (https://a.co/d/eyvvfKA) Nickerson Real Estate Strategies (1970s Textbooks) (https://a.co/d/92kSO0X) 💰 The Commercial Funnel Work with Joel: Visit https://www.brrrr.com to connect with real people, not bots. Join the Community: Subscribe for more deep dives into passive income: / @trulypassiveincome . Disclosure: Some links in this description may be affiliate links, meaning we receive a small commission if you make a purchase through them at no extra cost to you. Follow Us On Social Media • YouTube: Truly Passive Income | @trulypassiveincomepod • TikTok: @trulypassiveincome | / trulypassiveincome • Instagram: @truly_passive_income | http://@truly_passive_income • Facebook: Truly Passive | / trulypassiveinc • Twitter: @trulypassive | / trulypassive Download Our FREE Passive Investor Toolkit Everything you need to get started in passive investing - https://trulypassiveincome.com/toolkit/