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Former FinTech general counsel and whistleblower behind the Wirecard scandal, Pav Gill, joins Grit in the Boardroom to explain how to navigate the intimidating reality of corporate scandal and how to avoid being complicit. Host Erika Eliasson-Norris - CEO of Beyond Governance and Governance Assessor to the UK’s Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry - talks to Pav about what governing boards can learn from scandals like Wirecard, how to build trust and accountability in corporate governance, and the role of empathy and courage in real boardroom decisions. From turnaround stories and company culture change to governance lessons drawn from one of Europe’s most infamous collapses, this episode delivers powerful management case studies, chair perspectives, and practical guidance for leaders navigating growth under pressure and the demands of high-stakes strategies. What you’ll find in this episode of Grit in the Boardroom: The challenges and risks associated with whistleblowing, including personal and professional repercussions. How the tone from the top influences corporate culture, the convenience of blaming upper leadership, and the responsibility of creating a positive subculture. What can be learned from corporate scandals like Wirecard and 1MDB, including the warning signs of fraud and the necessity for effective governance practices. The role of non-executive directors (NEDs) in safeguarding corporate governance and acting as a genuine check on leadership practices. A platform for improving compliance and governance processes, stressing the need for a single source of truth to handle ethical violations effectively. -- Grit in the Boardroom is a weekly podcast where Erika Eliasson-Norris sits down with the best in business for executive interviews. She and her guests explore corporate governance beyond the sealed doors of the C-suite. -- Chapters: 00:00 Coming Up on Grit in the Boardroom 00:25 Introduction 01:56 What Made Pav Gill Realise the Need for Corporate Transparency 03:41 Why Being Based Abroad Made Whistleblowing Riskier 05:16 Why Anonymous Whistleblowing Is Essential 07:50 Who Should Own Whistleblowing: Leaders or Reporters? 11:48 The Moment Pav Knew Something Was Wrong at Wirecard 19:46 The Personal Impact of the Backlash Against Pav 25:22 Whistleblowing vs Manipulation: Knowing the Difference 28:46 How Boards Can Assess the Credibility of Complaints 30:48 How Pav Reported the Wirecard Scandal 33:34 Pav’s Advice for Whistleblowers 36:33 Reflecting on Pav’s Whistleblowing Journey 38:27 What Breaks Down in Corporate Governance During Scandals? 40:32 Early Warning Signs of a Corporate Scandal 48:25 Governance Tools and Advice for Building Business Resilience 50:21 Decision-Making Advice for Leaders and Listeners 51:05 Outro 51:48 Erika’s Reflection