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The November 2022 TAT retreat featured a series of dialectics, each made up of a panel of four awakened finders of enlightenment. Each panel was tasked with debating a classic paradox of spiritual seeking. The topic of this video's panel was "Knowing what you are" vs. "Knowing what you're not" and featured Shawn Pethel, Jenny Clarke, Bob Cergol, and Bob Harwood. Panelist bios: SHAWN PETHEL - Shawn Pethel is a physicist and lifelong questioner of reality. In his twenties he learned of something called 'enlightenment' and thus began a spiritual adventure of self-discovery. Along the way he met many helpful teachers and friends and investigated myriads of spiritual practices. In 2014 he had what he calls his 'enlightenment experience', because it left him completely satisfied and question-free about the nature of existence. These days he rarely thinks or speaks about enlightenment—except when he's asked to, whereupon he surprises himself with how much he has to say about a realization that cannot be spoken of. JENNY CLARKE - In May of 2012, after decades of spiritual study and self-inquiry, Jenny's identification as a separate, individual self fell away. A spaciousness, love, and peace were left in its place. Now, her singular vision is to appreciate and share the simplicity, beauty, love, and perfection of life no matter what direction it may unfold in any given moment. Currently, Jenny is retired and resides in Raleigh, NC, where her 3 young granddaughters constantly reflect the innocence, play, aliveness, and truth of who we really are. BOB CERGOL -- Bob was 19 when he met Richard Rose in 1972. He lived with Rose at his house in Benwood, WV, and on Rose's farm. Twenty years later, he moved away to pursue his life. He married and started a family, but soon gravitated back to the path. TAT group work led to a series of events that triggered a spiritual realization that brought Bob an absolute, final answer. Over the past decade, Bob has delivered a number of presentations during TAT events and has authored numerous TAT Forum essays that were ultimately published in Beyond Mind, Beyond Death, a TAT Foundation Press book. BOB HARWOOD -- Bob's search for truth came to an end on August 17, 1999 when his past sense of personal selfhood vanished after hiking in the mountains and pursuing a meditative activity that he calls "ATA-T" (attending the actual minus thought). He realized on that day that he was NOT who had always imagined he was, and that no separate volitional entity had ever existed. He also realized that duality is solely a product of imagination, and that any sense of separateness is an illusion. To attend future in-person or virtual TAT events: https://tatfoundation.org/events/ For books published by TAT Foundation: https://tatfoundation.org/books/ To read the free monthly online magazine, the TAT Forum, as well as back issues: https://tatfoundation.org/forum.htm To find a local or online self-inquiry group of fellow seekers near you: https://tatfoundation.org/events/#loc... For more inspiration & irritation, follow TAT on Instagram: / tatfoundation To watch all of the videos in the Non-Dual Debates playlist: • Non-Dual Debates