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I had the privilege to interview well-known author, minister, Tullian Tchividjian. A grandson of (Evangelist) Billy and Ruth Graham, Tullian was the Founding Pastor of the former New City Church (in Fort Lauderdale, Florida) which merged with the historic Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in 2009. He served there as Senior Pastor until June 2015. Tullian has written eight books including, It Is Finished: 365 Days of Good News (2015), One Way Love: Inexhaustible Grace for an Exhausted World (2013), Glorious Ruin: How Suffering Sets You Free (2012), and Jesus + Nothing = Everything (2011) which won Christianity Today’s Book of the Year in 2011. Both “Glorious Ruin” and “Jesus + Nothing = Everything” were ECPA finalists for Book of the Year. He also served as a Contributing Editor to various publications and traveled extensively around the country speaking at conferences, churches, universities, and seminaries. Tullian has appeared on Sean Hannity, Fox & Friends, 60 Minutes, CBS News, The Ingraham Angle, Morning Joe, the 700 Club, and many other TV and radio outlets. During his time at Coral Ridge, Tullian founded LIBERATE—a ministry that sought to “connect God’s inexhaustible grace to an exhausted world” through annual conferences (2011–2015), training, book and music publishing, daily blog posts, a daily radio program, and a weekly TV broadcast—and then it all came crashing down in late spring of 2015. In an age where so many believers think that the kingdom of God is about legislating morality, moral superiority to others, and where ministers often posture a false representation of "godliness," (and thus their listeners assume and impose that false representation not only on themselves but also their ministers), Tullian brings a profound wealth of biblical and personal experience and solidarity with the fallen ones. His latest book, Carnage and Grace (Confessions of an Adulterous Heart) poignantly, and with refreshing authenticity, demonstrates the power of Christ's righteousness vs. traditional legalism, the real hearts of all of us, including ministers, and the power of forgiveness, and true recovery and restoration for fallen people (including ministers--especially ministers). As Tullian articulates success and the supposed "fall from grace" (as much of evangelical Christianity labels it), he demonstrates with clarity that we all are in recovery, regardless of whether we identify with it. For me personally, as a believer in the fulfillment of God's kingdom, I have found it incredibly difficult to find believers who are safe: "Confidence in an unfaithful person in a time of trouble is like a broken tooth and a foot out of joint," and "a whisperer separates best friends." The kingdom of God, the Church, is called to be a safe place where confession of our darkest moments, regardless of how taboo, is not subject to being shouted from the housetops on social media, magazines, or Christian programming. Sadly, believers can be the greatest culprits in this regard. Tullian's testimony precisely resonated with me as one of the fallen, which is why I reached out to him. Tullian ministers at The Sanctuary in Jupiter, Florida. He refers to it as "a recovery group disguising it self as a church." With his enormously busy schedule, he took the time to do this interview with me, and the result was incredibly refreshing, tender, and brought together two "misfit preachers." Thank you, Tullian Tchividjian for your grace and mercy and for being a safe space to bear my burdens. You are a blessing to real people. #TullianTchividjian #carnageandgrace #ncmilive