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Liz Pelly is the foremost journalist/critic on the Spotify beat. Her byline has appeared at the Baffler, Guardian, NPR, and many other outlets. She is also an adjunct instructor at NYU Tisch School of the Arts. Liz is also been making the media rounds lately, talking about her new book *Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist (One Signal Publishers). The book is both a history of Spotify and an argument that Spotify is not, in fact, a music company, but rather an advertising company focused on manipulating user behavior to maximize time on platform. As a consequence, Spotify not only pushes musical aesthetics towards banal, "lean-back listening," it also makes musicians themselves expendable: replaceable by ghost musicians, AI slop, and behavioral algorithms that keep people just barely engaged at the lowest cost. In this show, Liz details how platforms shape listening and music making alike. We also discuss the tension between frictionless music consumption and meaningful cultural engagement. And remember, there's an extended version of this interview which features a bunch of bonus material including a listener question, a deep dive into Liz's reporting methods, and the backstory of how she got into journalism and got a major book deal, plus her book and music recommendations. It's available to our Patrons for a mere $3 a month. Sign up at Patreon.com/phantompower. 01:03 Why call the book “Mood Machine” 02:59 The Origin and Evolution of Spotify 05:32 Spotify's Strategy Shift: From Piracy to Playlists 12:43 The Rise of Mood Playlists 25:21 The Democratization Myth and Playlist Gatekeeping 30:35 The Cultural Impact of Lean Back Listening 44:39 The Future of Music: Ghost Artists and AI 48:21 Conclusion and Farewell #music #listening #platforms #AI