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In this episode: We sit down with Jonathan Schooler—top 100 cognitive scientist, consciousness researcher, and OG mind explorer—to unpack one of the most provocative theories of self-awareness: Nested Observer Windows. What if your mind isn’t a single stream of thought… but a mosaic of smaller minds, each with its own experience? We go deep on why you forget what you read, how verbalizing a memory can destroy it, and whether your tongue might have a consciousness of its own. Plus: psychedelics, mind wandering, AI, and what happens when the tulpa inside your head wakes up. Follow Dilan: https://x.com/dilan Follow Ben: https://x.com/realbentauber Listen to the podcast: https://www.almostgotitpod.com Learn more about Jonathan: Professional Title: Distinguished Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara. -Social Media Handles: X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/JonathanSchool6 LinkedIn: / jonathan-schooler-304929bb Facebook: / jonathan.schooler Website: https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/... Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro & Who is Jonathan Schooler 01:30 – Google's New AI Made Ben Dizzy 03:20 – Childhood, Alan Watts & the Roots of Consciousness 06:00 – What Is Consciousness? The Bat Test 09:05 – Verbal Overshadowing: How Words Can Ruin Memory 12:40 – When Your Memory Lies in Court 15:40 – Meta-Awareness vs. Just Living 19:00 – Buddhism’s 3 Types of Enlightened Beings 21:30 – The Mindful Mirror: What Is Meta Consciousness? 26:15 – Does Alcohol Erase Self-Awareness? 28:50 – The Cost of Too Much Meta-Awareness 32:05 – Meditation, Flow, and Creativity 36:20 – Are Mindfulness & Creativity in Conflict? 40:00 – Open Monitoring vs. Breath Focused States 42:00 – Nested Observer Windows: The Theory Explained 46:30 – Tongue Consciousness, Gut Brains, and Internal Networks 50:20 – Split-Brain Patients: Two Minds, One Head 54:10 – Tulpa: When Imaginary Friends Wake Up 58:20 – Ethical Dangers of Creating Minds Inside Your Mind 1:01:00 – Can You Train a Tulpa to Have Meta Awareness? 1:03:00 – Psychedelics That Shatter Your Mind Into Voices 1:05:30 – Is AI Just a Russian Doll Without a Soul? 1:09:30 – Are We Reborn Every Morning? 1:12:30 – Star Trek Teleportation & the Self 1:14:00 – Strassen’s Algorithm & AI Discoveries 1:17:30 – Co-Creating Art With AI for State Openness 1:20:00 – Can Art Make You More Curious? 1:22:30 – When AI Becomes Part of Your Brain 1:25:00 – The Curiosity Gap Between Users 1:28:00 – Lazy Brains vs. Active Minds 1:31:00 – The Risk of Cognitive Decline with AI 1:34:00 – Schools That Use AI Better Than Adults 1:36:00 – Philosophical Zombies & Conscious Uploads 1:38:00 – Is There a “Right” Way to Use AI? 1:41:00 – Mind Wandering, AI, and the Learning Process 1:44:30 – Creating Art With AI to Unlock Flow 1:46:00 – Alan Watts, God, and the Simulation Game 1:49:00 – Final Reflections: Hide-and-Seek With the Divine