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You can’t build great products on gut instinct, and yet, according to IBM’s global study of 1,000 enterprises, 77% of organisations using generative AI aren’t seeing any financial benefit. In this episode on The Product Experience podcast, Lily Smith sits down with Matthew Certner, Digital Product Engineering and Design Partner at IBM, to unpack the four key traits that drive ROI in AI-powered product teams: flexibility, incremental and targeted delivery, data-led decisions, and cross-functional collaboration. Recorded live at the Industry conference, this conversation offers practical lessons for any product leader navigating the hype and reality of AI adoption. Key Takeaways — Behaviour trumps technology. The top 20% of companies seeing ROI from AI succeed because of how their teams work, not just what tools they use. — Four behaviours define high-performing teams: flexibility, incremental and targeted delivery, data-led decisions, and cross-functional collaboration. — Value orchestration matters. Successful teams build the right product, build the product right, and make the product successful — with continuous feedback loops. — Generative AI isn’t a strategy. Treat it as an enabler, not the goal. Success depends on user and business value, not just technical adoption. — The Golden Thread keeps teams aligned. A living artefact linking vision, value, and execution ensures everyone is building towards measurable outcomes. — Innovation at enterprise scale needs structure. IBM Garage’s “co-create, co-execute, co-operate” model shows how large organisations can move fast without chaos. — 95% of new products will fail. The differentiator will be those that combine data discipline, user focus, and purpose-driven innovation. Chapters 00:00 – The danger of building on gut instinct 00:37 – IBM’s global study on generative and agentic AI adoption 01:00 – Meet Matthew Certner, Digital Product Engineering Partner at IBM 02:00 – Why most enterprises aren’t realising ROI from AI 04:50 – What the top-performing 20% of companies do differently 05:10 – The four key behaviours driving success 07:00 – Flexibility: adapting quickly to market feedback 08:10 – Incremental and targeted delivery — the “golden thread” principle 10:30 – Data-led decision-making versus the HIPPO effect 11:45 – Cross-functional collaboration and robust adoption 13:10 – Behavioural factors that make or break AI adoption 14:20 – Inside IBM’s “value orchestration” framework 15:10 – The Golden Thread in practice — a sticky-note story from Dallas 17:10 – Transparency and traceability in product development 18:00 – How IBM helps teams that aren’t seeing value from AI 21:00 – The paradox of moving too fast or too slow with AI 24:00 – Making the Golden Thread a living document 25:20 – Inside IBM Garage: speed of a startup, scale of an enterprise 27:40 – Why productivity savings, not hype, drive AI ROI 29:00 – How large organisations structure innovation teams 30:00 – The future: 800 million new products by 2026 31:00 – Why 95% will fail — and what the 5% will get right 33:10 – Final reflections: value, purpose and the human element Featured links Follow Matthew on LinkedIn | / matthewcertner IBM Garage | https://www.ibm.com/garage Industry Conference Cleveland 2025 recap at Mind The Product | https://www.mindtheproduct.com/recap/...