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In this episode, Carson Gross joins Carter and Nathan to discuss his book Hypermedia Systems Join them as Carson reflects on the process of publishing the book, the development of HTMX, and how to deal with setbacks! John Ousterhout and Bob Martin Conversation https://github.com/johnousterhout/apo... Fixi.js (a new project from Carson Gross) https://github.com/bigskysoftware/fixi Triptych - New Attributes for HTML https://github.com/alexpetros/triptych HTMX https://htmx.org/ -- Books Mentioned in this Episode -- Note: As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases. ---------------------------------------------------------- Hypermedia Systems https://amzn.to/4iou43T (Paid Link) Philosophy of Software Design by John Ousterhout https://amzn.to/4bEVMHp (Paid Link) The Master and Margarita: 50th-Anniversary Edition by Mikhail Bulgakov https://amzn.to/3R1pzR3 (Paid Link) Worse is Better (essay) https://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBet... No Silver Bullet https://worrydream.com/refs/Brooks_19... ---------------- 00:00 Intro 01:47 What Inspired you to write Hypermedia Systems? 07:37 Challenging Assumptions, Hypermedia, Javascript, and Worse is Better 13:51 Roy Fielding, REST, HATEOAS and mispronouncing things. 16:15 What is the most surprising outcome of writing Hypermedia Systems? 19:42 Creating fixi.js 28:32 Discussing Progressive Enhancement, Triptych, and Browser Standards 35:40 Dealing with Setbacks and Success 41:01 No Silver Bullet, and the Ousterhout and Martin debate 50:00 What if No HTMX? Hypercard 56:11 Tool chains, debuggers, and developer expectations 01:01:29 Final Thoughts ---------------- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5kj6DLC... Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... X: https://x.com/bookoverflowpod Carter on X: https://x.com/cartermorgan Nathan's Functionally Imperative: www.functionallyimperative.com ---------------- Book Overflow is a podcast for software engineers, by software engineers dedicated to improving our craft by reading the best technical books in the world. Join Carter Morgan and Nathan Toups as they read and discuss a new technical book each week! The full book schedule and links to every major podcast player can be found at https://www.bookoverflow.io