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What is really killing live music is not a lack of talent or audiences. It is the economics. In this episode of How Money Really Works, Peter Oliver speaks to Frankie Francis, musician, venue operator and one of the people behind Sunderland Music City, about what running live music spaces in the UK actually looks like right now. Frankie explains why 20 percent VAT on live music is so damaging for grassroots venues, how Covid era support helped in the short term but failed to fix the underlying problem, and why many venues are still operating right on the edge. This is not theory. It is about cashflow, staffing, ticket prices, and deciding which gigs can realistically go ahead. The conversation also turns to touring. Nearly ten years after Brexit, Frankie sets out how visas, carnets, transport rules and rising costs have changed the calculation for UK bands touring Europe, and why many artists now decide it is simply not worth doing. From Sunderland to the wider UK scene, this episode looks at what happens when culture is treated like a normal business, but without normal margins. What we talk about Why VAT hits live music venues harder than most people realise What Covid era government support actually changed on the ground Where policy does not match how venues really operate Why ticket prices cannot just keep rising How Brexit reshaped European touring for UK bands What this means for new artists and regional music scenes Follow How Money Really Works Instagram / hmrwpod TikTok / howmoneyreallyworks X https://x.com/HMRWpod YouTube / @howmoneyreallyworkspodcast Follow Frankie Francis and Sunderland Music City Frankie Francis / frankie____ Frankie and The Heartstrings / frankiestrings Sunderland Music City / musiccity.uk Disclaimer Nothing in this content should be taken as financial, tax or legal advice.