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The day-to-day chaos of the Trump administration can make it easy to ignore slow-moving threats on the horizon — like the $37 trillion national debt. How can you pay attention to a crisis building months or years away when every morning brings reports of basic freedoms being stripped away? But whether that crisis comes in the form of pandemics, potential war, climate change, or other slow-building hazards, America's future policymakers have to be prepared. A few weeks ago, Jordan Weissmann, a staff writer and editor here at The Argument, made a controversial case for why liberals need to become deficit hawks. This was something of an about-face for Jordan, who rolled his eyes through much of the deficit hawkery of the Obama era. So ... what changed? In this episode of The Argument, Jerusalem Demsas interviews Jordan about the U.S. debt crisis, whether Jordan's advancing age has anything to do with his sudden concern about the national debt, and how expanding social welfare programs may rest on taking the national debt seriously. The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Jerusalem will bring together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down. For full-length, ad-free episodes of our podcasts, you can become a paid subscriber. You can watch the full version with ads for free by subscribing to our YouTube channel here. The audio version is also available wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to our channel! @theargumentmag Subscribe to The Argument for ad-free episodes on Substack: https://www.theargumentmag.com/subscribe #NationalDebt #USDebtCrisis #FiscalPolicy #EconomicsPodcast #JerusalemDemsas #JordanWeissmann #theargument Correction: 43:01 The Social Security annual wage base limit is actually $176,100.