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The CEO of the LeSS company in an interview with Roland Flemm, one of the co-authors of the best selling book 10X ORG. In this movie, Bastiaan and Roland discuss the following subjects: Why the book exists: four years of Org Topologies work, Craig joining later, and the “waste of potential” caused by industrial-era structures (Taylor/Fayol). What a “10X org” means: fit-for-purpose, learning, adaptability—and why the bold claim matters in a fast-changing world. Why “AI will solve it” is naive: local speed gains can increase queues, WIP, dependencies, and make existing org design problems worse. Why leaders hesitate to redesign orgs: org design isn’t treated as a core management skill, it feels non-urgent, risky, and “working well enough.” The 10X ORG method in plain terms: mapping collaboration/value creation (not the org chart), assessing fit, then changing via experiments (MADE + Elevating Katas). People and mandates in the AI era: narrow roles become replaceable; broad mandates + continuous learning unlock human potential and real performance gains. Where scaling frameworks fit: LeSS as an Adaptive implementation (plus FAST), and why big companies may need multiple topologies—not one dogma.