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In Episode 421 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Ian Fletcher, one of America’s foremost experts on industrial policy, about the problems with free trade and how to revitalize the U.S. economy. Ian and Demetri spend the first hour of the episode laying the foundation for the argument Fletcher and his co-author, Marc Fasteau, present in their book Industrial Policy for the United States: Winning the Competition for Good Jobs and High-Value Industries. This portion includes a comprehensive critique of free-market economics and a systematic exploration of the tools that can be deployed to build critical industries and ignite flywheels of innovation essential to the long-term success of a modern economy. In the second hour, Kofinas and Fletcher examine international and historical examples of both successful and unsuccessful implementations of industrial policy, discussing what went right, what went wrong, and how those lessons can inform the development and implementation of a successful industrial policy for the United States in the 21st century. The conversation concludes with a series of policy recommendations for the White House and Congress. You can subscribe to our premium content and access our premium feed, episode transcripts, and Intelligence Reports at https://hiddenforces.io/subscribe. If you want to join in on the conversation and become a member of the Hidden Forces Genius community, which includes Q&A calls with guests, access to special research and analysis, in-person events, and dinners, you can also do that on our subscriber page at HiddenForces.io/subscribe. 00:00 Introduction 03:36 Ian Fletcher's Background 11:21 The Financial Side of Trade 17:43 The Role of Government in Innovation 22:54 Historical Context of Industrial Policy 28:57 Challenges of Free Market Theory 36:32 The Origins of Disney World 37:28 Military Innovations and Civilian Applications 39:50 The Role of Government in Industrial Policy 40:36 US Industrial Policy for National Security and Public Health 42:47 Biden's Green Energy Industrial Policy 43:54 The US Robotics Industry Gap 45:15 The Importance of Industrial Ecosystems 46:43 Flat Panel Displays: A Missed Opportunity 50:27 Currency Management and Industrial Policy 01:00:59 Tariffs and Trade Balance 01:08:49 Topics for the Second Hour If you enjoyed listening to today’s episode of Hidden Forces, you can help support the show by doing the following: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Spotify | Stitcher | SoundCloud | CastBox | RSS Feed Write us a review on Apple Podcasts at https://apple.co/3fLSIgR Write us a review on Spotify at https://spoti.fi/3tv4zYr Subscribe to our mailing list at https://hiddenforces.io/newsletter/ Subscribe and Support the Podcast at https://hiddenforces.io Follow Hidden Forces on Twitter: / hiddenforcespod Follow Demetri on Twitter: / kofinas Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou Follow Demetri on Twitter at @Kofinas Episode Recorded on 06/02/2025