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Would They Buy This? Creating Learning Worth Paying For This episode kicks off the **Strategic Learning Series**, focused on helping learning professionals build credibility, trust, and influence through higher-quality work. In this in-person conversation, Joseph sits down with Tom Jager, a Learning and Development Manager at Smurfit Westrock, to unpack a simple but uncomfortable standard: If your leaders had a choice, would they choose your learning? Tom explains why corporate L&D often defaults to “good enough,” how weak feedback loops allow mediocre training to persist, and what it actually means to create high-fidelity learning without chasing perfection. He shares real examples, including an unexpected “TikTok training” success, and offers practical advice for leveling up faster by copying and critiquing great work. If you want to move from delivering training to being seen as a strategic learning partner, this episode sets the foundation. --- What You’ll Learn What “high-fidelity learning” actually means in practice Why most corporate learning lacks a real feedback loop How leadership support unlocks creativity and better outcomes The difference between learning that is hard vs learning that is frustrating Why copying and critiquing great work accelerates growth How small quality improvements compound over time --- Chapters 00:00 In-person setup and introduction 01:20 Meet Tom – Learning and Development Manager 01:34 What Tom loves about L&D 02:21 Creativity and intentional design 05:07 Defining high-fidelity learning 07:35 Expectations in corporate L&D 09:55 Why feedback loops matter 11:12 Raising your standard for learning 14:15 Tom’s journey toward higher-quality work 19:19 Leadership and collaboration 21:46 Real-world impact of better learning 22:35 Where to start leveling up 25:22 Copying and critiquing for growth 28:25 Feedback and continuous improvement 29:28 Resources for creative development 33:58 Making learning people would choose 34:51 Building better feedback loops --- Resources Mentioned Everything Is a Remix (video series): [https://www.everythingisaremix.info/](https://www.everythingisaremix.info/) Lovable (simulation and AI experimentation): [https://lovable.dev/](https://lovable.dev/) Articulate Storyline 360: [https://www.articulate.com/360/storyl...](https://www.articulate.com/360/storyl...) Adobe Captivate: [https://www.adobe.com/products/captiv...](https://www.adobe.com/products/captiv...) Articulate Rise 360: [https://www.articulate.com/360/rise/](https://www.articulate.com/360/rise/) Camtasia (TechSmith): [https://www.techsmith.com/camtasia/](https://www.techsmith.com/camtasia/) Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development (overview): [https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/...) E-Learning Heroes: [https://community.articulate.com/](https://community.articulate.com/) --- Connect with Tom LinkedIn: [ / tom-jager-6038ab65 ]( / tom-jager-6038ab65 ) Overtime Courses: [https://overtime.courses](https://overtime.courses) --- 🎙️ Subscribe to Talk Learning With Me for more conversations like this! 📢 If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to: ✅ Subscribe to the podcast ✅ Leave a review – your feedback helps us grow! ✅ Share this episode with your network Thanks for tuning in—and we’ll talk soon.