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What happens when developmental theory runs into confession, collapse, and the living God? Rigel Thurston @rigelwindsongthurston joins me for a deep conversation at the edge of Integral Theory, metamodernism, and Christianity—where stage models meet moral reality, and growth no longer looks like optimization but repentance, humility, and return. We explore: • Why developmental frameworks break down during personal collapse • The limits of meta-awareness without transformation • Christianity as a symbolic architecture that absorbs complexity rather than denying it • How the digital age is forcing new honesty about meaning, sin, and becoming human • Why growth often looks less like ascent and more like pruning This episode sits inside my ongoing exploration of Meta-Christianity—not as an ideology, but as a lived encounter with truth that includes structure and surrender. If you’ve followed conversations around Peterson, Vervaeke, Pageau, Brendan Graham Dempsey, Cadell Last, or the liminal web—and sensed both insight and insufficiency—this dialogue helps name what’s missing. Growth is real. Collapse is real. And sometimes the only way forward is through the fire Chapters 00:00 – Entering the Corner Meeting Rigel through livestreams, TLC, and Midwest Estuary 06:20 – The “Cosmic Navel” and Naming Meaning Playfulness, friction, and why names shape culture 12:50 – From Lurker to Participant Risk, trust, and why showing up actually matters 21:10 – Music, Improvisation, and Liturgy Why beauty comes before argument 30:40 – Multitracks, In-Ears, and the Machine Optimization, worship tech, and what gets lost 41:30 – Architecture Shapes Worship Rooms, reverberation, and congregational singing 52:10 – Show & Tell vs Talent Shows Modeling creativity without hierarchy 1:03:40 – Development, Collapse, and Kintsugi Why growth often looks like breaking 1:15:20 – Steelmanning, Starmanning, and Personhood Beyond debate toward relational truth 1:28:40 – Identity Is Covenantal, Not Individual Person, family, tribe, nation, church 1:41:10 – TLC as the Bleeding Edge Why real thinking moved online 1:50:10 – What Comes Next Estuary, Ralston College, McGilchrist, and meaning CONNECT WITH RIGEL THURSTON YouTube: @rigelwindsongthurston Substack: https://www.rigelthurston.com/p/tlc-ing Twitter / X: https://x.com/rigelthurston Live Streams: Rigel hosts live “Cosmic Navel Gazing” estuary-style livestreams every Friday. CONNECT WITH CHRISTIAN BAXTER YouTube Membership: / @christianbaxter_yt Substack: https://christianbaxteryt.substack.co... Twitter / X: https://x.com/chrbaxter_yt