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Summary In this engaging conversation, Ayoub Fandi and Varun Gurnaney explore the evolving landscape of Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) engineering. Varun shares his unique journey from cybersecurity to GRC, emphasizing the importance of automation and collaboration between engineering and compliance teams. They discuss the challenges faced in GRC, the philosophical aspects of risk management, and the future of compliance in a rapidly changing technological environment. The dialogue highlights the need for a more integrated approach to security and compliance, advocating for a shift towards real-time assessments and a deeper understanding of the technical landscape. Sound Bites "Screenshots are cool again." "Compliance should be free." "Don't get hacked is what I care about." Takeaways Varun's journey into GRC began with a cybersecurity role at EY. The importance of automation in GRC processes is crucial for efficiency. Cultural differences in compliance approaches between small and large companies. GRC engineering is often misunderstood and underappreciated in larger organizations. The need for collaboration between GRC and engineering teams is essential for success. Risk management should be tied to real business impacts rather than just compliance checkboxes. The future of compliance may involve more automated and real-time assessments. Tools used in security can significantly enhance GRC efforts. Understanding the technical landscape is vital for effective GRC practices. The conversation highlights the philosophical aspects of compliance and risk management. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Guest Background 02:42 Varun's Journey into GRC Engineering 06:32 Comparing GRC in Different Company Sizes 11:56 The Role of Automation in GRC 17:34 Challenges in GRC Engineering 23:26 The Future of Compliance and Risk Management 29:03 The Importance of Collaboration in Security 34:47 The Philosophy of Risk and Compliance 40:33 The Role of Tools in GRC 46:21 Final Thoughts on GRC and Future Directions