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🎥 Recorded using Ecamm Live — my favorite all-in-one Mac app for podcasting, recording, and live streaming. 👉 Try it here (affiliate link): https://bit.ly/4osrvBk Interview Date: Aug 2020 In this episode of the HMA Podcast, I’m joined by Professor Peter Schubert, one of the world’s leading authorities on Renaissance counterpoint, improvisation, and practical musicianship. A professor at McGill University and author of Modal Counterpoint, Renaissance Style (OUP 1999) and Baroque Counterpoint (with Christoph Neidhöfer), Schubert has played a major role in reshaping how counterpoint is taught—bringing improvisation, real music-making, and Renaissance pedagogy back into the classroom. We discuss Nadia Boulanger, the flaws of traditional counterpoint instruction, why improvisation exploded in the last 20 years, how Renaissance musicians actually learned, what “counterpoint” really meant in the 16th century, how to build contrapuntal mastery, whether harmony is real, the melody–harmony chicken-and-egg problem, practical classroom methods, and his vision for music education. Schubert also shares insights on Zarlino, Artusi, Lucitanus, Josquin, Willaert, improvising canons, teaching beginners, counterpoint in Brahms and Haydn, temperament, perfect pitch, and the future of musicianship training. Intro/Outro Music: Almost Done - Christopher Dzengelewski Chapters: 0:00 – Introduction & Early Musical Background 1:55 – Studying with Nadia Boulanger 3:27 – Comparing French & North American Music Education 5:07 – Partimento, Dubois, and Practical Training 6:02 – German Idealism vs. Practical Musicianship 7:04 – How Counterpoint Was Taught Before Schubert’s Innovations 10:17 – Why Schubert Shifted to Improvisation-Based Teaching 11:58 – Harmony vs. Counterpoint: Are They Different? 15:06 – Which Comes First: Melody or Harmony? 18:05 – Impact of New Treatises & Research 20:03 – What “Counterpoint” Really Meant in the Renaissance 21:19 – Levels of Mastery in Renaissance Improvisation 25:21 – Treatises: Zarlino, Artusi, Lucitanus & Others 29:13 – Best Composers to Model When Learning Counterpoint 31:07 – Josquin, Willaert & Renaissance Style Shifts 34:43 – Why Study Renaissance Music Today? 39:00 – Inside Schubert’s Classroom: How He Teaches Beginners 41:14 – Solfège: Fixed Do, Movable Do, Hexachords 42:26 – Learning Species Counterpoint Through Singing 44:02 – Canons & Fugues: How Hard Are They Really? 45:58 – Counterpoint in Haydn & Brahms 46:55 – What Doesn’t Work in Music Education? 48:47 – Is Improvisation a Survival Skill? 49:50 – Rising Interest in Improvisation in the Last 20 Years 51:02 – Temperament, Tuning & Perfect Pitch 54:20 – Best Way to Learn Counterpoint 56:08 – How Schubert Would Reform Music Education 1:00:03 – Upcoming Work & Recordings