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Economists love to say there are no free lunches in public policy. Jennifer Doleac thinks criminal justice is one of the rare places where that’s wrong. In this episode, host Jerusalem Demsas interviews Doleac about the “science of second chances," and why the best reforms make communities safer while shrinking the system. Doleac is an economist and the author of a new book called The Science of Second Chances. She argues that crime policy has been stuck in a fake binary: either ignore the harms of crime, or ignore the harms of the system. We dig into what changes when you bring the scientific method to one of the most moralized policy arenas in American life. In this conversation: • Why certainty changes behavior more than severity (and why long sentences often don’t deter) • DNA databases and the real tradeoff: privacy vs public safety • Why evidence can be politically explosive—even inside academia • Retribution vs rehabilitation: what economics can’t answer (and what it can) • Employment after incarceration: why “ban the box” can backfire—and what might work instead • Prison reform as a positive-sum opportunity (for safety, staff, and incarcerated people) The Argument is a podcast dedicated to honest, unflinching debate about the biggest questions facing democracy, culture, and our future. As the host, Editor-in-Chief Jerusalem Demsas brings together voices across the political spectrum to argue, challenge, and persuade. Each episode is a space where disagreements are confronted directly, with clarity and conviction, rather than hidden or shouted down. Subscribe to our channel: @theargumentmag Subscribe to The Argument for ad-free episodes on Substack: https://www.theargumentmag.com/subscribe Articles, studies, and posts referenced in the episode can be found on our website at https://www.theargumentmag.com/s/the-...