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Judging by the vociferous comments on social media after my interview with Dr Nicholas Crisp, middle-class South Africans are almost universally camped against the concept of national health insurance. But most South Africans DO agree the status quo is disastrous. While corruption, cadre deployment and incompetence are blamed, deep structural issues inherited from pre-1994 were never addressed. South Africa’s solution surely lies outside those provided in often-referenced First World countries like the UK and France. Among the global success stories is Indonesia, a developing country with an efficient universal healthcare system serving a widely dispersed population four times SA’s. The President of Indonesia’s national health insurance body is Dr Ali Ghufron Mukti. He is a university professor and serves as the director general of Indonesia’s Ministry of Research Technology and Higher Education. We met during his visit to SA last week. - Alec Hogg Video production by Patrick Kidd Your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider keeps you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here - https://bit.ly/3lfVRYP. --- Timestamps 00:00 - Introductions 00:45 - Dr Ali Mukti on his visit South Africa 01:16 - Dr Mukti on the geography and politics of Indonesia 02:21 - On the background of Indonesia's national healthcare system 03:51 - On the debates surrounding National Health Insurance 04:42 - On the standard of healthcare in Indonesia 06:27 - On whether doctors emigrated from Indonesia upon the inception of NHI 07:00 - On the processes and successes of NHI in Indonesia 08:13 - On private sector involvement 09:54 - On what healthcare NHI in Indonesia offers and provides the "normal" person 11:09 - On taxation and funding of NHI in Indonesia 12:04 - On the benefits of universal healthcare 12:57 - On the percentage of Indonesia's GDP that goes toward NHI 13:44 - On the differences between the UK's NHS and Indonesia's NHI 14:50 - On talks with the South African Health Department 16:12 - On where Indonesia has gotten NHI right 18:40 - On the operational costs of NHI in Indonesia 20:12 - On combatting corruption 20:48 - Concludes