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Why do Church of England apologies often feel like empty words? In this interview, I sit down with Rev Stephen Kuhrt to discuss the systemic failures exposed in his book, "Sound Asleep." We investigate why apologies regarding the Jonathan Fletcher scandal have failed to address the root culture of abuse and cover-up within the Anglican Church. Stephen explains the concept of "The Network"—an informal conservative evangelical power structure that often wields more influence than bishops—and why it has been so difficult to hold accountable. We also discuss the limitations of the 31:8 review and why the Church cannot be trusted to mark its own homework when it comes to safeguarding. Buy Stephen's book here: Safeguarding the Institution: How the culture of the Church of England facilitates abuse : Kuhrt, Stephen: Amazon.co.uk: Books https://share.google/GBHMihgN7qL4ZZI3a https://share.google/RoRNFb5SOaEIYz5Cf Why "apologies" without systemic change are retraumatizing victims. The hidden "Network" of patronage protecting abusers. Why independent safeguarding is the only way forward for the CoE. Subscribe for more investigations into church culture and faith: https://www.youtube.com/@Sacrosanct?s... In this channel I look at spirituality and faith, meeting with people from my past, who have an interesting insight or expertise or people I simply find interesting and would love to learn more from. 00:00 Arrival: Why Safeguarding Actually Matters 02:49 Shared Anger: Our Hopes for This Conversation 05:32 Stephen's Story: The First Safeguarding Shock 10:42 Silencing Pain: How Church Culture Enables Abuse 16:34 The Bryn Hughes Case & Institutional Backlash 20:34 Weaponised Process: Being Investigated for Speaking Out 24:50 The Personal Cost: Surviving Suspension & Pressure 28:23 "Constructive Dismissal": How the System Fights Back 31:37 Systemic Rot: Why the CofE Keeps Failing Victims 33:57 The Theological Blind Spot in Leadership 42:15 Is the Church Safe? Navigating Trust Issues 51:30 Accountability: What Needs to Change at the Top? 1:02:15 Moving Forward: Hope for True Reformation 1:18:26 Conclusion