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In 1971 Erin Pizzey set up the first women's refuge to help women escape domestic abuse in the world, known as Chiswick Women's Aid, thereby, at the same time, founding women's aid. She was rejected by the leading activists in the women's movement because she did not accept the philosophy that all domestic violence is caused by men's 'patriarchal' assumptions and that all women in violent relationships are victims. Her disagreements with conventional feminist philosophy has led to her being ostracised by Women's Aid and Refuge, persecuted and protested against (including death threats), driven out of the UK and prevented from earning a living, In this second interview, Erin talks about the therapy women need if they are to escape from being stuck in abusive and violent relationships.