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Not gonna beat around the bush I am just starting to get into ESF. Or was at any rate. I can take out clueless A2G farmers, sure. But skilled and kitted out players make mincemeat of me. I probably could dump 500 more certs for tomcats and 1000 or so on upgrades, but I just feel it's a waste when I can't even menace the thing ESF's are supposedly the hard counter towards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this situation there was a handful of friendly reavers, at least one skyguard and a handful of infantry many of which I assume probably had G2A launchers. While we were now closer to their warpgate so their lib had a place to retreat to, he had been constantly coming after us and retreating with his only death having been to wandering too close to a base with a skyguard, AA Maxes and manned AA turrets. As you can see, a skilled player on the shredder can annihilate just about anything else in the air. Combine that with TB and mortar, kitted out and with a skilled crew, there is literally no hard counter aside from MAYBE another lib with a TB. Everything else is just a "Deterrent" (read: annoyance) that prevents them from constantly farming, it does not prevent them from getting in, killing a handful of players, sundy, or other critical objective and getting out over and over again.