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"The biggest thing PMs get wrong about UX? That it's just about the UI. It's actually about psychology." Blanca Barragan is a product manager at Versapay and Forbes Technology Council member who's learned that the best product decisions happen when there's healthy tension between disciplines. In this conversation, we explore what actually happens when PMs and UX leads collaborate on AI products — not the sanitized org chart version, but the real version with prototyping friction, deadline pressure, and the moment someone has to decide if the AI can deliver what the design promised. For UX professionals worried about relevance in an AI-first world, Blanca's message is clear: she's betting on the psychology, the human insight, and the creative tension you bring. Not the UI you generate. TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro: UX is About Psychology, Not Just UI 1:03 Blanca's Journey from Finance to Product Management 3:27 Becoming Your Own Customer: The Path to Product 6:05 How Spanning Multiple Disciplines Shapes Product Thinking 7:03 The Three Pillars: Where PM Sits Between Business, UX, and Tech 8:02 What "Healthy Tension" Actually Means in Product Development 10:16 When PMs Prototype: The Collaboration Dynamic 13:37 AI's Speed vs. Human Insight: Finding the Balance 16:37 The Danger of Giving In to the Loudest Person in the Room 18:10 How AI Changes What's Possible (and What We Should Attempt) 21:15 Diverging Further: When "Crazy Ideas" Become Achievable 22:00 From Predictive Planning to Intelligent Performance Management 23:15 Connecting the Dots: Turning Cost Centers into Revenue Drivers 24:37 Human-in-the-Loop vs. Generic AI Prompts 25:28 Expanding Beyond Niche: Product Strategy Lessons 26:15 Lightning Round: What PMs and UX Get Wrong About Each Other 26:45 The Most Overused Phrase in Product Development 27:30 Redesigning Anything: Suburban Housing and AI-Powered Individuality 28:07 Closing & What's Next GUEST Blanca Barragan Product Manager, Versapay Forbes Technology Council Member LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/blancabarragan HOST Eric Ellis UX Leader & Podcast Host Masters in Interaction Design, Florida State University LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ericellisdesign ABOUT UX EVOLVED UX is evolving, not dying. Through conversations with industry veterans who've navigated major technology disruptions, we explore what really matters as AI reshapes our profession. Subscribe for practical guidance on navigating AI transformation without losing what makes us human. 🔗 Newsletter: https://ericwebdesigner.substack.com/ #UXDesign #ProductManagement #AIProduct #UserExperience #DesignLeadership #ProductDesign #AITransformation #UXResearch #DesignThinking