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There’s a reason journalist and Bluesky board member Mike Masnick calls the platform “the most interesting experiment going in social media.” Originally launched as a project within Twitter in 2019, Bluesky has since become an independent company intent on making social more like the web. What does that mean, exactly, and why does it matter? Bluesky founder and CEO Jay Graber says social media is stagnating because “we're in this trap where users are locked in and developers are locked out.” It’s time to open things up again, she says, like in the innovative early days of the internet. Highlights of this conversation: 00:48 Bluesky’s origin story 02:04 Twitter under Elon 04:17 The case for decentralization 05:58 The case for Bluesky 08:33 Mike McCue’s Bluesky a-ha moment 09:55 What Jay’s excited about re: developer activity 11:21 The “wacky experimentation” happening on Bluesky 12:27 Building social experiences in Web 2.0 and why Bluesky needs to exist now 14:38 The social internet and how it’ll evolve; ActivityPub 15:57 Capturing social primitives in a way that’s composable and extensible for new ways of doing social 16:11 Philosophy of user data (and other kinds of data) 16:55 The identity system of AT Protocol, DIDs (decentralized identifiers) 18:15 Example #1: comments on Bluesky feeding into blog comments 19:08 Example #2: Bluesky username as domain name 20:29 Benefit for creators 21:33 How identity system could shake out over time 22:56 "Like Linktree built on an open protocol" 24:21 Bridging from AT Protocol to ActivityPub 25:23 Bridgy.fed and interoperability 27:35 DID standard and how decentralized networks should come together 30:56 Building identity protocols, DID methods 34:05 Importance of open social graphs (“our relationships shouldn’t be owned by one company") 36:28 Phone number portability analogy 38:16 Store passport analogy 38:40 Bring identity to the forefront, independent of the protocol 43:29 Bluesky principle: “Make social more like the Web” 44:20 Bluesky’s roadmap and what’s next 46:22 Custom feeds: build your own, building communities 48:12 One of Mike’s favorite feeds, Quiet Posters 48:30 "Cozy mode" 49:33 Building a foundation developers can trust, building resilience 50:55 Bluesky’s exciting cultural moments 54:10 Showing the world what’s possible Mentioned in this episode: Hard Fork podcast featuring Jay Graber: • Can Bluesky Save Social Media? | EP 69 🔎 You can find Jay at @jay.bsky.team ✚ You can connect with Mike McCue at @mmccue.bsky.social and at @[email protected] 💡 To learn more about what Flipboard's doing in the fediverse, sign up here: http://about.flipboard.com/a-new-wave