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Is OCD only about anxiety and exposure therapy—or is there something deeper happening underneath the symptoms? In this episode of the OCD Family Podcast, host Nicole Morris, LMFT, sits down with Dr. Michael Greenberg, clinical psychologist and creator of Rumination-Focused ERP, to explore a powerful new lens for understanding OCD. Drawing from his article “OCD as a Defense Mechanism,” Dr. Greenberg explains how obsessions and compulsions may function as defenses against difficult emotions, and how understanding these emotional dynamics can complement traditional behavioral treatment. Using the metaphor of sailing through stormy waters, Nicole and Michael discuss how ERP helps people learn to manage the sails, while deeper emotional work may help calm the waters that drive the storm in the first place. This conversation invites both clinicians and families to think about OCD treatment as more than one single approach—and to explore how behavioral and relational perspectives can work together. You can find all resources from this episode here: https://www.ocdfamilypodcast.com/blog... Timestamps At-A-Glance: 00:00 Greetings! 00:22 Intro (With Music) 01:08 Overview For This Episode 04:09 Introducing Dr. Michael Greenberg, Ph.D. 10:31 Setting Expectations 15:46 What is Psychoanalysis? 31:42 Psychoanalysis Expanded 33:16 How Does This Apply to OCD? 45:23 The Role of Displacement & Undoing 01:19:48 Intrusive Thoughts 01:24:13 Goodbye ⚠️ Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace therapy, diagnosis, or treatment from a qualified mental health professional.