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Former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern joins Outrage + Optimism for a thoughtful conversation about politics, leadership, fear, anger, trust, democracy, and what happens when people feel that the system is no longer working for them. Ardern reflects on why fear is such a powerful political tool, why voters often respond out of frustration rather than ideology, and how leaders can make decisions when public trust is fragile. She talks openly about the rise of political anger, the pressures on democratic systems, and the gap between what politicians expect from the public and how people actually experience politics. This conversation explores some of the most important questions in contemporary politics: • Why are people losing trust in political systems? • How does fear influence political behaviour? • Why are democracies struggling to make long-term decisions? • What does responsible leadership look like in a moment of instability? • How can governments rebuild confidence when voters feel unheard? If you’re interested in political psychology, democratic resilience, leadership under pressure, trust in government, populism, climate politics, or the future of democracy, this interview is essential viewing. 🎧 Listen to more conversations on leadership, climate politics and global systems: https://linktr.ee/outrageoptimism #jacindaardern #politics #leadership