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Aparna: About 10-odd years ago that the clinic had a patient who had a paraesophageal hernia which was surgically repaired. She was sent to therapy because of femoral debility and weakness and she couldn’t do stuff like garden or walk long. She was in her mid-sixties. She ended up seeing 2 or 3 therapists and they kept passing her on because she got better, but she would have the same complaint that she couldn’t breathe. Every time she said she couldn’t breathe the therapist would refer her back to the doctor. The doctor would run cardiac tests, and all kinds of other tests and say cleared – then send her back to therapy. So in the process of passing the patient along, she came to me and one of the first things she said was not that she couldn’t breathe – but that she had difficulty taking a breath of air. That she felt like she couldn’t expand. From that complaint, I started assessing. Remember this was a decade ago, and at that time most people weren’t looking at the thoracic spine. I started looking at the thoracic spine and found that she couldn’t expand from the rib cage at all. One of the things we know about paraesophageal hernias is that it is associated with increased intraabdominal pressure. They are related to things like chronic severe constipation, chronic cough, and those kinds of things. The process of treating her was how my interest in breathing and the diaphragm developed, and she got better. She healed, and I realized that this is something that we can actually focus on and that patients need it. Leeann: I started at Henry Ford, where we’re currently working together, about 7 years ago. Aparna did a one-hour lecture on dysfunctional breathing and breathing to help us understand the mechanics of the pelvic floor and the abdominals. It was a lightbulb moment for me because I’ve always looked for what my missing link was, specifically lumbar patients and low back pain patients, and this made sense to me. What I used to do was transverse abdominus engagement and it doesn’t always work for all patients. I call Aparna my missing link. So it started off with that and then we collaborated and did a four-hour course that ended up having eight hours of content because we couldn’t stop talking and researching about it. Then it just transitioned into what we have now as a full weekend course. It’s a great mash-up of ortho and pelvic floor for both of us. It really has helped both of us treat our patients better from a pelvic standpoint and an orthopedic standpoint for low back pain. Aparna: Part of it is because we work together that we are really able to pounce on and treat patients jointly together and incorporate the sports and manual training from Leeann as a manual trained therapist and the pelvic thoracic knowledge that I bring in with the diaphragm aspect and the breathing. We can tie everything together and treat our patients in a very wholistic way. Leeann: My big thing is that we try to incorporate more of the regional interdependent models because they come in with pelvic pain or low back pain. We look above, below, and beyond that to see how the system is functioning together. We like to see how the body moves as a whole instead of just focusing on just one part of it. That’s where most of our treatment is derived from and how we work together.