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Summary In this episode of the Quality Talks podcast, host Stu Day and guest Megan Ozanne discuss the pitfalls of an automation-first approach in software testing. They explore the importance of team communication, identifying pain points, and building a capable team. Megan shares her insights on developing an automation-first maturity model, engaging with stakeholders, and measuring impact. The conversation also touches on improving communication through techniques like the Three Amigos approach, capturing conversations in tickets, and navigating pushback from leadership. Megan emphasises the need for empathy in leadership and the challenges of remote work, concluding with key takeaways for listeners. Takeaways 1. Start with the conversations, not the test suites. 2. Fix the conversations that the teams are having. 3. It's all about conversations. 4. Engage with stakeholders to drive change. 5. Everyone's opinion is valid, even if it's not the path you want to go down. 6. Gather as much data as you can beforehand. 7. Visibility and communication are key. 8. Develop an automation first maturity model. 9. Measure impact through storytelling, not just metrics. 10. Empathy is crucial in leadership. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Quality Talks Podcast 01:49 Understanding the Automation First Trap 04:06 Challenges in Automation Implementation 06:00 The Importance of Team Communication 10:14 Gathering Insights from Team Members 11:35 Using Maturity Models for Team Development 14:20 Engaging with Stakeholders Effectively 17:35 Measuring Impact and Metrics 18:28 Improving Communication with Three Amigos 23:21 Navigating Remote Work Dynamics 27:26 Building Empathy in Leadership 31:20 Conversations with Senior Leadership 35:02 The Challenges of Remote Conversations 38:55 Key Takeaways and Closing Thoughts 40:45 End