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Was the 14th-century Muslim thinker Ibn Khaldun the forefather of modern sociology? Historian Gabriel Martinez-Gros explains Khaldun's groundbreaking theory of the balance between violence and production, and the central role of taxation. Martinez-Gros also examines Ibn Khaldun’s ideas on religion as a force for conquest, his view of the state as both essential and doomed to decline, and how his work relates to modern thinkers such as Hobbes, Rousseau and Weber. Gabriel Martinez-Gros is Professor of Medieval History at the University of Paris-Nanterre and a former co-director of the Institut d’Etudes de l’Islam (EHESS) in Paris. In the last twenty years, Martinez-Gros has focused his attention on the analysis of Ibn Khaldūn’s theory of history. The interview, conducted by journalist Christine Ockrent, was recorded in June 2025 during a three-day seminar on Middle Eastern history, titled Empires of Faith.