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Only 1% of pastors say their churches are very effective at evangelism. Yet, 72% of people say they are open spiritually. In this episode, Barna CEO David Kinnaman and author Mark Matlock join me as we continue the 2025 Church Trends series and discuss the current divide between church and culture, the surprisingly dismal state of evangelism in the church today, and the missed opportunity of unchurched people's surprising spiritual openness. ✅ GROW YOUR LEADERSHIP WITH RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS VIDEO: 🧠 Download the 2025 Church Trends Leader Guide for Free: https://careynieuwhof.com/church-tren... Show Notes http://careynieuwhof.com/episode704 The Highly Productive Leader: https://careynieuwhof.com/highly-prod... Gloo: https://gloo.us/freetexting Thrive http://thriveconference.org/ ---------- Welcome to The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, a podcast about leadership, change, and personal growth. I hope this episode helps you thrive in life and leadership. Subscribe to my channel so you don't miss any of the newest episodes: / @careynieuwhof Find the show notes and more at http://careynieuwhof.com/episode704 🔗 CONNECT WITH ME: / careynieuwhof TikTok: @careyniuewhof 🎧 CAREY NIEUWHOF LEADERSHIP PODCAST: Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nG6FJp... Interested in what gear I use to record my podcast? I list all of the equipment in this blog post: https://careynieuwhof.com/the-home-st... ---------- Intro Music: Song: Alexey Anisimov - Always Be Beautiful Music provided by Tunetank. Free Download: https://tunetank.com/track/4144-alway... ---------- 🎥 Chapters Evangelism Challenges (00:00:00) Discussion on the fragility of the Christian ecosystem and its impact on evangelism. Spiritual Openness Discussion (00:04:22) Exploration of the current climate of spiritual openness in society, especially among younger generations. Church Leaders' Challenges (00:22:58) Concerns about church leaders becoming defensive amid cultural shifts while engagement trends downward. Changing Evangelism Methods (00:24:02) Reflection on outdated evangelism methods and the need for adaptation in current cultural contexts. Pastors' Self-Assessment (00:24:22) Discussion on a statistic revealing that only 1% of pastors believe their outreach efforts are effective. Culture's Openness vs. Church's Closeness (00:25:53) Contrasting the openness of culture with the increasing defensiveness observed in church communities. Discipleship and Cultural Fidelity (00:30:13) Discussion on how strict discipleship can lead to believers becoming less relatable to non-believers. Deconstruction of Faith (00:32:53) Exploring how individuals are re-evaluating their past faith experiences and the implications for evangelism. Understanding Youth Perceptions of Ministry (00:37:10) Younger, unchurched individuals criticize paid ministry staff, questioning the legitimacy of financial compensation in church roles. The Importance of Personal Testimonies (00:39:31) Sharing personal healing stories from leaders fosters a deeper connection and engagement with spiritually curious individuals. Mistrust in Pastoral Authority (00:40:33) Discussion on the statistic showing significant mistrust among congregants towards their pastors and its implications. Creating Safe Spaces for Exploration (00:42:32) The Alpha program is discussed as a way to create environments for spiritual exploration and engagement. Alpha's Effective Principles (00:43:10) Alpha's approach emphasizes listening without judgment and fostering a hospitable environment for spiritual seekers. Changing Approaches to Evangelism (00:46:55) The need for a shift in evangelism strategies in response to contemporary cultural shifts and spiritual curiosity. Cultural Spirituality Observations (00:50:45) Discussion on the prevalence of spiritual practices in cities and the opportunities they present for conversations about faith. Connecting with Spiritual Seekers (00:52:58) Finding common ground with spiritual seekers opens avenues for meaningful conversations about faith and Jesus. Research Insights on Spiritual Experiences (00:53:24) Research shows that many experience God in nature, highlighting a spiritual hunger in contemporary society. Mental Health and Spirituality (00:56:45) Connection made between mental health and spirituality, emphasizing the importance of both in contemporary discussions. Curiosity in Evangelism (01:00:33) Encouragement to look for where God is already working in others' lives to foster genuine connections.