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In this insightful conversation, Azeem Chaudhary sits down with Iftikhar Hussain Arif, one of Pakistan's most celebrated poets and literary figures. Iftikhar Arif shares his early life struggles and the profound influences that shaped his literary career. He traces the evolution of the Urdu language and its critical role in the development of traditions and culture in Pakistani society. Delving deep into Urdu poetry and literature, Arif offers a sharp analysis of its impact, discussing the contributions of greats like Ghalib, Iqbal, Mir, and others who have left an indelible mark on the language. This episode also explores the Progressive Movement in Urdu literature, its key figures, and the significance of its contributions to modern Urdu literature. Whether you're a lover of language, culture, or history, this conversation offers rich insights into the past, present, and future of Urdu in Pakistan. Stay tuned for more diverse and compelling conversations as Azeem Chaudhary continues to explore new facets of Pakistan’s cultural and political landscape. Chapters: 0:00 Intro 0:45 Who is Iftikhar Arif? 2:42 Why Choose Pakistan over India? 10:45 Life in Lucknow 19:24 Was Urdu portrayed as a Religious Language? 23:32 What is the Relation between Tehzeeb and Adab? 25:12 Should Arabic be Taught in Pakistan? 28:05 Why has Urdu Struggled to become Pakistan's Unified Identity? 30:15 How Does Urdu Differ Between Pakistan and India? 33:09 Origin of Urdu 39:50 Was Urdu Ever the Voice of Secularism in Pakistan? 41:41 What is Iftikhar Arif Most Celebrated For? 47:31 The Story of 'Kasauti' 49:08 What Distinguishes Ishq from Muhabbat? 56:36 Literature on the Incident of Karbala 58:40 Who Was Hussain bin Mansoor Hallaj? 1:01:36 What Inspires Iftikhar Arif to Write? 1:13:15 What Made Habib Jalib So Extraordinary That Audiences Remained Captivated? 1:19:30 Are Mushaira's still Happening in Pakistan? 1:26:40 Reflections on the Legacies of Iqbal and Ghalib 1:36:47 Discussing the Works of Baba Bulleh Shah, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh & Khwaja Farid 1:42:20 Relationship with Faiz Ahmed Faiz 1:52:29 Ghazal 1:54:49 Any Remaining Aspirations in Life? 2:00:22 Outro