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Dario Amodei joins John Collison to talk about Anthropic's growth to ~$5 billion in ARR, how AI models show capitalistic impulses, predictions for an agentic future, the economics of model businesses, and the 19th-century concept of vitalism. Full transcript on Substack: https://cheekypint.substack.com/p/a-c... Subscribe to Cheeky Pint YouTube: • Cheeky Pint Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2IHbGJJ... Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Substack: https://cheekypint.substack.com/ Key moments 00:00 Intro 00:50 Working with your sibling 01:43 Building Anthropic with 7 cofounders 02:52 ~$5 billion in ARR and vertical applications of products 07:18 Developing a platform-first company 10:08 Working with the DoD 11:11 Proving skeptics wrong about revenue projections 13:13 Capitalistic impulses of AI models 15:43 AI market structure and players 16:56 AI models as standalone P&Ls 20:48 The data wall and styles of learning 22:20 AI talent wars 26:04 Pitching Anthropic’s API business to investors 27:49 Cloud providers vs. AI labs 29:05 AI customization and Claude for enterprise 33:01 Dwarkesh’s take on limitations 36:12 19th-century notion of vitalism 37:27 AI in medicine, customer service, and taxes 40:59 How to solve for hallucinations 42:41 The double-standard for AI mistakes 44:14 Evolving from researcher to CEO 46:59 Designing AGI-pilled products 47:57 AI-native UIs 50:09 Model progress and building products 52:22 Open-source models 54:43 Keeping Anthropic AGI-pilled 57:11 AI advancements vs. safety regulations 01:02:04 How Dario uses AI