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A deep-dive discussion between Paul Culmsee and Ryan Cunningham, focusing on the evolution and future of Microsoft's Power Platform, the impact of generative AI, and the broader implications for enterprise software development, governance, and digital transformation. The conversation is structured around recent innovations, practical use cases, and strategic considerations for organizations navigating rapid technological change. --- *Power Platform’s Evolution and Generative AI* Discussion of the shift from "low code" to more advanced, agentic, and generative approaches, with Ryan critiquing the limitations and pejorative nature of traditional "low code" terminology. 2:33 Introduction of new features like Plan Designer (now GA), Generative Pages, and code pages, highlighting their transformative potential for both business users and pro developers. 1:27 Ryan explains how Power Platform has always aimed to shorten the gap between human needs and computer instructions, and how generative AI now enables more direct, efficient code generation. 3:00 *Pro Developers, Abstraction, and Platform Flexibility* Paul and Ryan discuss the challenge of winning over pro developers, addressing concerns about flexibility and abstraction in low code platforms. 6:16 Ryan contextualizes this as a recurring pattern in software history, emphasizing that real value comes from moving up the stack and focusing on productivity and control. 6:41 The conversation covers the importance of managed platforms for enterprise deployment, security, and governance, and how Power Platform’s maturity supports these needs. 9:29 *Managed Platform vs. Azure and Strategic Positioning* Exploration of the relationship between Power Platform and Azure, with Ryan clarifying that the two are complementary and often drive increased usage of each other. 12:38 Ryan urges organizations to rethink all software and labor structures in light of AI and automation, emphasizing the need for platforms that enable rapid, large-scale transformation. 13:02 *Plan Designer: Purpose, Agents, and Future Ambitions* Paul shares practical experiences with Plan Designer, noting its value for rapid prototyping and requirements gathering. 17:50 Ryan details the agentic structure of Plan Designer, with specialized agents for data modeling, requirements, process mapping, and solution architecture, and hints at future expansion (e.g., ROI agents, project management agents). 24:36 The strategic goal is to orchestrate human and agent collaboration for business solutions, not just app building. 23:27 *Generative Pages and Vibe Coding* Paul describes using generative tools to modernize legacy apps, and the arrival of Generative Pages as a major leap. 25:23 Ryan explains the technical rationale for direct code generation (e.g., TypeScript/React) over manipulating legacy low code primitives, and predicts this will become a primary build pathway. 28:41 Discussion of the implications for SaaS, build vs. buy decisions, and the potential to reduce SaaS budgets by leveraging Power Platform’s managed, customizable environment. 38:35 *The Future of Agents and Digital Co-Workers* Ryan outlines the proliferation of agents across Microsoft products, including Copilot Studio and M365, and the vision of digital co-workers augmenting every business process. 43:51 The conversation covers the need for agents not just in development, but also in governance, monitoring, and ongoing solution management. 46:29 *Copilot Studio, Agent Builder, and Integration* Clarification that Copilot Studio is the extensibility platform for M365 Copilot, with embedded agent builder experiences in SharePoint and Teams acting as entry points to the full studio. 50:38 Discussion of the seamless escalation from simple agents to enterprise-grade solutions, leveraging Azure AI models and managed platform capabilities. 53:16 *Organizational Change and Next Steps* Paul and Ryan acknowledge the significant change management required as roles and delivery models evolve, and tease a future conversation about how IT departments and organizations should structure themselves in this new era. 49:43 ______________________ CONTACT PAUL LinkedIn ➝ / paul-culmsee RAPID CIRCLE https://rapidcircle.com/