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In this episode of The Breakout CEO Podcast, host Jeff Holman sits down with Dr. Natasha Todorovic-Cowan, author of Making Change Work and expert in Spiral Dynamics, to unpack the real challenges CEOs face when leading through rapid change. Natasha shares her own story of navigating unexpected disruption early in her career and explains why adaptability, human behavior, and cognitive bias awareness are mission-critical for modern leadership. Natasha breaks down the mechanics of spiraling, how teams up-spiral into resilience or down-spiral into burnout and how CEOs can build cultures that respond faster, align better, and perform at higher levels. The conversation highlights lessons from companies like Kodak and the importance of fostering a culture that encourages growth and adaptability. If you’re a CEO leading a fast-growth SaaS, ecommerce, tech, or B2B company, this conversation gives you practical frameworks to navigate complexity with clarity, courage, and congruence. Check out Natasha's work at https://spiraldynamics.org/. Say hello to Natasha! Facebook: / natasha.todorovic.92 Instagram: / spiraldynamics LinkedIn: / dr-natasha-todorovic-cowan-mba-a5470719 Think you'd be a great guest on the show? Apply https://go.intellectualstrategies.com/ Get in Touch with Jeff Holman ⤵️ Website: https://www.intellectualstrategies.com/ Instagram: / holmantech Facebook: / jeff.holman.9678 LinkedIn: / holman Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Breakout CEO Podcast 02:40 - Natasha's Journey and the Concept of Spiraling 05:49 - Understanding Change and Adaptability in Leadership 10:30 - Case Studies: Kodak and Blockbuster's Missed Signals 12:30 - Cognitive Biases and Leadership Blind Spots 16:37 - The Importance of Data in Decision Making 22:19 - Congruence in Leadership and Team Dynamics 26:43 - Framework for Assessing Team Congruence 31:04 - Unity and High-Performing Teams 34:54 - Key Takeaways for CEOs ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ The Breakout CEO is a podcast for growth-stage business leaders: founders, CEOs, and executive advisors who are scaling companies, navigating inflection points, and leading through rapid growth. Hosted by Jeff Holman, CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies, the podcast features 30-45 minutes of insight-packed episodes with innovative entrepreneurs, scaling CEOs, expert operators, and CEO coaches behind high-growth ventures.