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Why Facts Don't Change Minds

What if everything we've been taught about environmental education is backwards? In this episode, we're joined by Drew Dumsch, President and CEO of the Ecology School at River Bend Farm in Maine. Drew co-founded the organization 26 years ago with a premise that felt radical then and feels essential now: that ecological literacy — learning to read the landscape the way you learn to read a book — is foundational to creating engaged, compassionate citizens capable of understanding complex systems. We explore why decades of climate data haven't translated into action, how lived experience creates change that facts alone can't, and what it means to lead an environmental education organization when everything you believe in is under attack. Drew shares the story of a child who couldn't trace potato chips back beyond the factory, the bipartisan climate legislation that passed 34-0 in the Maine Senate, and why "showing up to work every day is my act of rebellion." This conversation challenges the assumption that more information will save us. Instead, it offers a different path: one grounded in systems thinking, regenerative principles, and the radical act of kindness in a moment defined by casual cruelty. Key Topics Discussed Why traditional environmental education fails to create lasting change The disconnect between climate knowledge and climate action Systems thinking vs. factual learning: what creates ecological literacy How regenerative principles extend beyond agriculture to learning and leadership Building bipartisan consensus in an era of toxic polarization The relationship between hope, understanding, and agency Meeting people where they are vs. demanding perfection Why collaboration (not competition) is the only path forward -The role of compassion in climate action What it means to reimagine the future now, not later Notable Quotes "Being told facts is not the purpose of education. Facts are part of becoming a well-rounded human being and an engaged citizen, but I think a huge gap is that as a society, we lack the ability to understand systems." — Drew Dumsch "The idea that his beautiful potato chip started as a tuber in the ground covered in dirt was reprehensible to him. If I'm not doing a heavy dose of food systems education, I'm missing a huge part of that." — Drew Dumsch "We do kindness." — John DiGregorio (quoted by Drew) "You could create sustainability through fascism and cruelty. It may be sustainable, but is that a vibrant community you want to live in?" — Drew Dumsch "The education of the future is just three things: understanding of self, understanding of others, and understanding of systems. If you can get that right, you're going to have an amazing society." — Drew Dumsch "Showing up to work every day is my act of rebellion." — Drew Dumsch "Hope is based on both understanding of what can be and then agency to be a part of that." — Drew Dumsch "People want the simple solution. That's boring. I think the level of diversity in solutions is exciting and creative." — Drew Dumsch Timestamps [0:00] Introduction [0:54] Meet Drew Dumsch [1:56] Current Policy Challenges [3:25] Environmental Education Under Attack [5:37] Funding in a Competitive Landscape [7:12] Building Consensus Through Convening [9:41] Beyond Education: Theory of Change [11:24] Systems Thinking and Lived Experience [27:36] Embracing Multiple Solutions [28:30] Finding Hope in Hard Times [29:26] Active Rebellion [31:03] Supporting The Ecology School [31:47] Connect Online [31:55] Closing Resources The Ecology School at River Bend Farm Website: theecologyschool.org LinkedIn: The Ecology School Instagram: @ecologyschool Mentioned in the Episode: The Triple Focus: A New Approach to Education by Daniel Goleman and Peter Senge Maine Outdoor School for All network Living Building Challenge P.S. — Feeling a disconnect between your mission and your brand? Cosmic helps social impact leaders build trust through story-rich brands, compelling campaigns, and values-aligned strategy. Let's talk about how to elevate your impact: https://designbycosmic.com/