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Send a text (https://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/tex...) Part 2 of 2 episodes with Penny De Valk. Why are organisations still losing talented women — and why does this pattern persist, even when leaders genuinely want things to change? In this second episode of a two-part conversation, Mary Gregory and Penny De Valk move beyond individual leadership journeys to examine the systems shaping women’s experiences at work today. Drawing on Penny’s global work with senior leaders — alongside insights from the McKinsey Women in the Workplace research — this episode explores why the leadership pipeline continues to leak, why women are still promoted and sponsored differently, and how well-intended organisational decisions can quietly disadvantage women. Mary and Penny discuss the broken first rung, sponsorship versus mentorship, invisible and emotional labour, flexibility stigma, and the growing fatigue around gender equity efforts — as well as what actually helps organisations retain and develop female talent. This is a grounded, realistic conversation about why women leaving is not a lack of ambition, but a rational response to systems that still haven’t caught up — and what leaders can do differently if they want to stop losing great people. Free resource: If this conversation has raised questions for you, you can download the Gender Equity Temperature Check — a short, reflective tool designed for HR, DEI and senior leaders to assess the what's really happening beneath the surface for gender equity in your organisation. Download your Gender Equity Temperature Check here: https://www.marygregory.com/gender-eq... Connect with Penny on LinkedIn: / pennydevalk Or visit her website: https://pennydevalk.com/ 🔗 Connect with Mary: marygregory.com (https://marygregory.com) 📣 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marygregory (https://www.linkedin.com/in/marygrego...) 📸 Instagram: / mary_gregory 📰 Newsletter: Subscribe on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relati... 🎙 Want to be a guest? Get in touch! ⭐ Subscribe, share & leave a review ✨ Produced by Mary Gregory Leadership Coaching