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Why do people keep attending your church—but never really engage? As churches head toward 2026, many Executive Pastors are wrestling with the same tension: attendance has rebounded, but ownership hasn’t. Volunteer pipelines feel fragile. Discipleship pathways aren’t sticking. And leaders aren’t always sure where the breakdown is happening. In this episode of the unSeminary Podcast, Rich sits down with Kayra Montañez, Executive Pastor at Liquid Church, to unpack what the data—and real ministry experience—reveals about moving people from attendance to engagement. This conversation draws directly from insights in the 2025 National Executive Pastor Survey, where a significant number of Executive Pastors reported concern around discipleship depth, volunteer sustainability, and limited visibility into engagement metrics heading into 2026. Rather than offering theory, Kayra shares what Liquid Church is actively changing right now—and why. ⏱ Episode Timecodes 0:00 – Why many churches still rely on a “prescribed path” model 1:41 – What the National Executive Pastor Survey reveals about engagement anxiety 3:58 – Attending vs. belonging: the real engagement gap 6:30 – Digital attendance and the challenge of anonymous engagement 8:00 – Shifting from “Mario Brothers” to “choose your own adventure” pathways 9:36 – The Connecting Conversation: concierge-style next steps that work 12:00 – Why funnel-first discipleship models are breaking down 15:00 – Rethinking small groups by prioritizing biblical literacy 18:35 – Launching midweek Bible deep dives (and why Revelation worked) 21:00 – Rebuilding volunteer culture with “try before you buy” strategies 24:00 – Reducing onboarding friction without compromising safety 27:46 – Key diagnostics every Executive Pastor should measure 31:25 – Fixing the front door before blaming the back door 33:08 – Looking ahead: discipleship, AI, and what’s next for 2026 In this episode, you’ll learn: Why most churches don’t have an engagement problem—they have a conversion problem How to redesign pathways around people’s real needs and seasons of life Practical ways to shorten volunteer onboarding without lowering standards What metrics actually reveal where engagement is breaking down Why uncoupling relational connection from biblical literacy changed everything at Liquid How Executive Pastors can lead with clarity amid growth pressure and complexity If you’re an Executive Pastor preparing for 2026, this episode will help you rethink how people move—from showing up, to belonging, to owning the mission. 👉 Want the full data behind this conversation? Download the complete 2025 National Executive Pastor Survey Report at: www.XPSurvey.com The insights may challenge how you think about engagement—and sharpen how you lead into the next season.