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Jacek Kuroń - True democracy (82/150) скачать в хорошем качестве

Jacek Kuroń - True democracy (82/150) 8 лет назад

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Jacek Kuroń - True democracy (82/150)

To listen to more of Jacek Kuroń’s stories, go to the playlist:    • Jacek Kuroń (Social activist)   Polish activist Jacek Kuroń (1934-2004) helped to transform the political landscape of Poland. He was expelled from the communist party, arrested and incarcerated. He was also instrumental in setting up Workers' Defence Committee (KOR) and became a Minister of Labour and Social Policy. [Listeners: Jacek Petrycki, Marcel Łoziński; date recorded: 1987] TRANSCRIPT: That's when different groups began to come together. We found that Bogdan Cywiński's book 'Rodowody niepokornych' played a crucial role for us because it was thanks to this book that we suddenly discovered there were Christians who were very close to us ideologically in this, this lack of humility, this striving for freedom, this fight for freedom. It was a very powerful experience for us and these incredibly important debates between believers and non-believers occurred in which I think for us were more fundamental, when I think about what was fundamental here, what we were searching for and what we found there irrespective of who among us was converted and who wasn't. Moral norms can't be relative because what happened was the illegitimate offspring of the left, Stalinism. It was illegitimate but it was still the offspring. I always say there's a lot of truth in the joke that there'll be a sign over Stalin's grave in Moscow saying, 'Here lies the interest from Marx's capital.' As if what should we find there, what being the basic question irrespective of what, of the type of action you undertake from these Promethean motives, whether it leads you to commit a crime since, as I wrote in one of my texts, far more evil is committed from Promethean motives than from narrow, small-minded egoism. If I have done things in my life that were bad, and of which I am ashamed, and I have done them, I did them out of jealous idealism which led me into communism. So someone who is undertaking an action from Promethean motives, an action that is ideological and is for the good of society has to ask himself the following question: what is going to protect me from the possibility of committing a crime? And I'd like to say that the fact that the left wing is today asking itself that question, is it strength? I'm very afraid for all those right-wing friends who imagine that they are immune to this. Yet it was the left wing that needed... because the only response to this is to transcend moral norms. That is the only answer and it was thanks to Christianity and thanks to our Catholic friends that we discovered it then. In addition, when we revised our traditional way of thinking, our ideological traditions, we needed to find, to look at others, and this is a very important issue for pluralism. Like I said, we decided that pluralism is essential around '59, but it was a purely technical question for us. Only once you have pluralism can you have democracy and freedom and liberalism and liberal relations. It is impossible to have the maximum individual freedom and maximum democracy without pluralism. Thanks to that coming together of attitudes with various groups, some of which we later parted from, we came to understand how essential all of these directions were for social life, that it's not a matter of me tolerating another person's outlook because I'm tolerant, but because what is right within society is divided. Every ideological trend carries with it some fragment of what is right and true; only their coexistence, their cooperation during conflict and battle gives us democracy. In addition, that incredibly important, those discussions and meetings of '71, which enabled various groups of people to meet laid the foundations of KOR, and of the possibility of united action among the intelligentsia in the face of the events of '76.

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